Is it possible te test what the impact on the performance of opensim
is when it uses mono 2.10 or even mono 3.0 instead
of mono 2.6 ?
For most linux systems it is no longer an issue to upgrade mono. In
the past it was, but time changes.
I think opensim should go for performance and not the lowest possible
version.
2013/1/27 Ilan Tochner <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
We use Linux too and have downloaded and used versions of mono that
were not officially supported by the
distro/version we used. There are alternative repositories people can
use that are just a Google search away.
IMO, supporting outdated mono versions is a luxury we can't afford in
our volunteer-based project where the few
developers that contribute code are focused on modern mono versions.
We won't be spending resources on supporting old mono versions but I
assume from your reply that you will be. As you
are one of the people who help move OpenSim forward, this use of your
time will negatively effect most OpenSim users
as your time could have been much better spent improving OpenSim for
modern versions of mono (I'm being liberal
calling the 2 year old mono 2.10 release modern).
Your time, your decision but your choice to spend it on outdated
middleware will negatively effect OpenSim's
progress. It really is your call, I've said my say about the subject.
Cheers,
Ilan Tochner
Co-Founder and CEO
Kitely Ltd.
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 11:26 PM, Melanie <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Since you have already stated that you will not support older
versions, our decision will not affect you in any way.
We have, for a long time, used mono 2.4 as the base simply because
versions of distros in common use don't offer it as part of their
repo. OpenSim targets not only Windows users but all operating
systems, including Linux. As long as people use versions of Linux
that don't natively supply 2.10, we cannot make it our baseline.
That is simply not open for discussion.
Melanie
On 27/01/2013 21:56, Ilan Tochner wrote:
> That's all well and good but saying we support mono version 2.6 and
> actually supporting it are two very different things.
>
> Who here is willing to spend their time fixing problems that only
appear in
> versions before mono 2.10? (this isn't a rhetorical question, if you
are
> willing to commit to doing so then please reply and let the group know)
>
> If anyone is, do you think that doing so is better use of our limited
> development resources than telling the person who had the problem to
just
> upgrade to a slightly more modern version of mono that can be easily
> installed?
>
> It makes sense not to drop support for old operating systems, as they
> usually can't be easily upgraded, but installing a newer version of
mono is
> very simple when there are repositories you can just apt get / rpm
it from.
>
> What exactly will be served by saying mono 2.6 is supported when no one
> will invest (waste?) their time debugging for it? Wouldn't our users be
> better served by having OpenSim run as best as it can (given our
limited
> resources) on a better performing version of mono that those users can
> easily install?
>
> I know Kitely won't be spending resources on debugging for old mono
> releases so my only horse in this is wanting OpenSim to advance as
quickly
> as it can without leaving people behind. Setting mono 2.10 as the
baseline
> makes it easier for this open source dev community to accomplish
this goal.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ilan Tochner
> Co-Founder and CEO
> Kitely Ltd.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Melanie <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>> It has always been our policy to use the _lowest_ version of Mono
>> that we can get by on to support the largest possible number of
>> configurations and systems.
>>
>> This is not going to change.
>>
>> The feature required by recent code additions is found in Mono 2.6,
>> so we are discussing Mono 2.6 now. We are not discussing Mono 2.10.
>>
>> Melanie
>>
>> On 27/01/2013 15:32, Ilan Tochner wrote:
>> > If, as we both agree, OpenSim works differently with different
versions
>> of
>> > mono then people are going to report bugs that exist when OpenSim
is run
>> on
>> > mono versions prior to 2.10 that don't exist with mono version
2.10 and
>> > later.
>> >
>> > How many people are there in the OpenSim dev community that still
>> actively
>> > use a mono version prior to 2.10? In fact, AFAIK, many devs are
already
>> > looking to see when they can safely move to mono 3.0. So, who is
going to
>> > work on fixing bugs that no longer exist with mono 2.10 and
later? If no
>> > ones is going to work on doing that then we can't honestly say
that mono
>> > 2.6 or 2.8 are still supported.
>> >
>> > If we intend to have new OpenSim users, we should have them using
the
>> mono
>> > version with which they'll get the best experience with the
existing /
>> > future code base. It doesn't help anyone if they use an outdated
version
>> of
>> > mono and find that the problems they encounter aren't going to be
>> addressed
>> > because they no longer exist with newer versions of mono.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Ilan Tochner
>> > Co-Founder and CEO
>> > Kitely Ltd.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Dahlia Trimble
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> Nobody is asking you to use an older version. The minimum
version is
>> >> simply the earliest version that would be required to run
OpenSimulator.
>> >> Anyone is free to use any later version if they so choose.
>> >>
>> >> It's also not true that later versions are necessarily better. I've
>> >> personally had to disable features in OpenSimulator and remove
them from
>> >> core due to newer versions of Mono which introduced new bugs
that made
>> such
>> >> features unusable.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 1:05 AM, Ilan Tochner <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Mono 2.10 was released Feb 15th, 2011, i.e almost two years ago. I
>> don't
>> >>> think there is any target platform that mono 2.6 runs on that
doesn't
>> have
>> >>> mono 2.10 working on it as well.
>> >>>
>> >>> There have been many bug fixes in mono between the 2.6 release
and the
>> >>> 2.10 release, some of which can definitely effect OpenSim
performance
>> and
>> >>> stability. Who would choose to use the older mono version when a
>> better one
>> >>> has been available for at least two years? If someone reports a
problem
>> >>> with OpenSim I think we should require them to at least test it
using
>> mono
>> >>> 2.10 so we can rule out the older mono being the cause of the
problem.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>>
>> >>> Ilan Tochner
>> >>> Co-Founder and CEO
>> >>> Kitely Ltd.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 4:28 AM, Dahlia Trimble <
>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I think the point is raise it to the minimum version which
supports
>> the
>> >>>> codebase. If there was some feature in 2.10 that did not exist
in 2.6
>> and
>> >>>> that feature was required for proper execution, then 2.10
would be a
>> better
>> >>>> target. Otherwise it would just be forcing people to upgrade who
>> would not
>> >>>> otherwise need to.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There's nothing stopping anyone from upgrading to 2.10 if they
desire,
>> >>>> however, requiring a higher version than is really necessary
limits
>> >>>> potential users of the software to those who are able to
install those
>> >>>> versions in their setups. If a goal of OpenSimulator
developers is
>> wide
>> >>>> adoption, then it makes sense to have it be usable on as many
existing
>> >>>> hardware/software configurations as possible.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Ilan Tochner
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> I second setting 2.10 as the base. If we'll be forcing people to
>> >>>>> upgrade I think we should upgrade to the latest stable
release and
>> not to
>> >>>>> one that is outdated.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If OpenSim works fine with 3.0 then I'd vote for it to be the
base.
>> If
>> >>>>> we're still calling OpenSim alpha we should at least get the
>> benefits of
>> >>>>> doing so. Supporting old versions of mono is a waste of
developer
>> resources.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Cheers,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Ilan Tochner
>> >>>>> Co-Founder and CEO
>> >>>>> Kitely Ltd.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Trinity <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> if we can get a way with it why not go to 2.10 else quickly
be out
>> of
>> >>>>>> date agian
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 9:38 AM, James Hughes <
>> >>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> +1
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 01/24/2013 10:29 PM, Justin Clark-Casey wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Whilst writing JsonStore regression tests this evening, I
hit the
>> >>>>>>>> problem where modInvoke script methods of more than 4
parameters
>> >>>>>>>> cannot
>> >>>>>>>> be registered on Mono 2.4.3 as it doesn't implement the
required
>> >>>>>>>> larger
>> >>>>>>>> multi-parameter Func generic types.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Therefore, I want to bump the minimum Mono version for
>> OpenSimulator
>> >>>>>>>> up
>> >>>>>>>> to 2.6 which was released more than 3 years ago. This also
>> involves
>> >>>>>>>> bumping the minimum .net framework version up to 4.0, as also
>> >>>>>>>> detailed
>> >>>>>>>> at [1]
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> [1] http://opensimulator.org/**mantis/view.php?id=5971<
>> http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=5971>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Any comments?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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<mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
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