If there's objections within 24 hours, I'd like to close this case as approved then.
Thanks --irene On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 15:47 +0800, Irene Huang wrote: > Hi, All > > I am reseting the timeout to be August 4th. > > --Irene > On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 10:14 +0800, Henry Zhang wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I made some changes on the proposal to make it neat, please check. > > Thank Brian for review... > > > > Regards, > > Henry > > > > Henry Zhang ??????: > > > Hi Brain, See my answer in-line, > > > > > > And I finished the proposal to add some change from the discussing, see > > > attachement. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Henry > > > > > > Brian Cameron ??????: > > >> > > >> Henry: > > >> > > >>>> What is the accessibility impact of this new mechanism of accessing > > >>>> "applet like things"? Does this "just work" with accessibility? If > > >>>> not, what is our plan to make it accessible? > > >>> > > >>> AWN is used to manage the running task, and some applets. We can use > > >>> Ctl+Alt+Tab to access the running task, it should be accessibility > > >>> support. > > >>> For the applets in AWN, no way to access them through keyboard by now. > > >> > > >> I think it would be good to discuss some sort of get-well plan for a11y > > >> in the materials. > > > > > > These days I discussed accessibility support with the community, they > > > confirm me that they have not consider this issue, I will try to push > > > them to see if they can do some work on it, at least I can see they > > > begin to think add some support so that user can access AWN by keyboard. > > > And by now we can use Ctl+Alt+Tab to switch in the running applications, > > > so these should be support accessibility. > > >> > > >>>> Also, how does this relate to gDesklets? Although giving users choice > > >>>> to customize their desktop is a good thing, I hope we aren't going to > > >>>> end up with a mish-mash of random eyecandy that doesn't work well or > > >>>> integrate together. > > >>> > > >>> There is no confliction between gDesklets and AWN, gDesklets used to > > >>> place the applets to desktop, AWN will run applets in its dock. The > > >>> applets is different, for gDesklets, using .display file, while AWN > > >>> need .desktop file in the applet package. > > >> > > >> Might be good to explain the relationship between gnome-panel, > > >> gDesklets, and avant-window-navigator in the materials a bit more. > > > Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal. > > >> > > >>>> Do users need to compile code to install a new applet, or are the > > >>>> applets interpreted (e.g. Python code) so that users can just > > >>>> install an > > >>>> applet and it will just work without needing to do extra complicated > > >>>> things like compile code? > > >>> > > >>> Yes, for Python applet, user can use awn-manager to install directly, > > >>> no compile needed. For C, need to build and install. > > >> > > >> That's good to hear. You could also explain this in the materials a bit > > >> more. > > > > > > Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal. > > >> > > >>>>> If someone develop the applet for AWN, should follow Applet > > >>>>> Submission at http://wiki.awn-project.org/Awn_Extras:Applet_Submission > > >>>> > > >>>> Could you give some examples of what sorts of applets are available for > > >>>> this framework? > > >>> > > >>> See http://wiki.awn-project.org/Applets:DevelopmentGuidelines, where > > >>> list the detailed guideline on what the applet should be. > > >>> You also can download awn-extras, there are some stable example. > > >> > > >> It doesn't seem like we have spent enough effort figuring out which > > >> plugins we should/could be including by default. Wouldn't > > >> avant-window-navigator be more useful if we shipped some plugin > > >> features with it? > > > They generally used to make the display effect better to look, so not > > > necessary. > > >> Do other distros ship any plugins with it? > > >> Perhaps we should follow the general community lead here. Though > > >> this could also be managed in a separate case, rather than this > > >> case. > > > From the webpage, the plugin is with awn-extras, so should in another > > > project. And most of plugins are Ubuntu-special. > > >> > > >>>> What applets are installed by default and what do they do? > > >>> > > >>> Currently from what I can see, there is only 1 applet installed by > > >>> default, it is Launch/Taskmanager, in order to add some other, have > > >>> to use awn-extras. > > >> > > >> It would be nice if the case materials explained more about the one > > >> applet that is installed by default, and what it does, in more detail. > > > Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal. > > > > > >> > > >>>> How active are third parties or individuals at creating applets? > > >>> It really depend on the individual who like to contribute his applet > > >>> to AWN, from what I can see, there definitely are quite some new > > >>> applets provided by some developers. > > >> > > >> There sure are. I'm curious what applets other distributions might be > > >> including by default. > > > In AWN, by default there is only one applet, all other applets need to > > > be added by awn-extras, I discussed with the community yesterday, they > > > told me "There are some plans to include more applets in the core > > > installation." > > >> > > >>>> I notice the Applet Gallery you describe is here: > > >>>> http://wiki.awn-project.org/Applet_Gallery > > >>>> > > >>>> Which ones will we be shipping, if any? > > >>> Most of the applets listed in Gallery are just in awn-extra, also > > >>> there are some applets contributed by some developers, awn-extras is > > >>> another different project, I tried to build it, failed, because all > > >>> of applets are in this package, some applet need different > > >>> dependencies, some of them are missing on Solaris, e.g. > > >>> python-alsaaudio. > > >> > > >> On Solaris, we support SunAudio and will hopefully soon support OSS. So > > >> any applets which depend on ALSA would obviously not work. It would be > > >> nice if we provided (at the very least) a spec-file in spec-files-extra > > >> to allow people to more easily build whatever extra plugins do work on > > >> Solaris. > > > Will do once got time.. > > >> > > >>>> Although it does look cool, I worry that it will confuse users if we > > >>>> provide another interface that works very similar to gnome-panel. I > > >>>> would appreciate more information about what our future plans are. > > >>>> Will > > >>>> avant-window-navigator replace gnome-panel, will it be used together > > >>>> with gnome-panel, or is it expected that users will pick one or the > > >>>> other to use? Perhaps you could explain a bit how you expect users > > >>>> would actually use this in relation to gnome-panel. > > >>> > > >>> Yes, It's a big concern now, we have gnome-panel, should we ship AWN? > > >>> At the moment, AWN can't replace gnome-panel, reason below: > > >>> 1, AWN need compositing support, it means before run AWN, you have to > > >>> make Compiz start, then AWN can run, so in the non-Compiz > > >>> environment, we can only use gnome-panel. > > >>> 2, There is no launch menu by default in AWN, and the AWN menu can't > > >>> updates when applications are installed. > > >>> 3, Trash in AWN is not stable enough now. > > >>> 4, maybe something others I did not dig out.. > > >> > > >> Whether we ship AWN for these reasons is obviously a business decision > > >> for the team to make. It shouldn't affect whether the ARC case is > > >> approved or not. It might make most sense to integrate it when the > > >> above issues are addressed. However, I would make sure you file bugs > > >> upstream (probably with both the AWN and gnome-panel projects) to see > > >> if we can encourage the upstream maintainers to address some of these > > >> issues (along with the a11y issues). > > >> > > >> I'd talk it over with your project team. > > > Yes, I did discuss with the project team, and I noticed they have > > > realized these issue, and discussing how to fix them, but no schedule now. > > >> > > >>>> If they are intended to be used together, then is it likely that users > > >>>> be confused by having two sets of interfaces that do very similar > > >>>> things? > > >>> > > >>> Yes, this issue also bother me, so I'd say AWN can provide some > > >>> different experience which gnome-panel can't provide, e.g. 3D.. > > >>> So if user like to taste, he can download and use it. > > >> > > >> Right. > > >> > > >>>> managers (metacity and compiz). Users can easily manage switching > > >>>> between the two because the GNOME configuration dialogs allows users to > > >>>> pick which one they will use. This way users are prevented from > > >>>> possibly trying to run both at the same time, making a more sane user > > >>>> experience. Is switching back and forth between gnome-panel and > > >>>> avant-window-navigator managed in a similar simple fashion? > > >>> > > >>> by now it's impossible to switch between them, because we can't > > >>> remove gnome-panel. > > >> > > >> Seems it would be neat to enhance the desktop so users could more easily > > >> switch between them if they wanted. > > > Yes, I agree, so in Ubuntu, they generally close the gnome-panel at the > > > bottom, and only make the top panel run, and AWN run at the bottom of > > > screen, I think we can do in this way, and it's planned that AWN will be > > > placed anywhere of screen, so in the future, we can make these 2 work > > > together better.. > > > > > >> > > >>>> Will we be integrating any of these Extra plugins with this case, or a > > >>>> separate case? Or are you just informing us that end users can install > > >>>> additional applets if they wish? > > >>> > > >>> They should be in awn-extras, it's another project, we may consider > > >>> to deliver it separately. > > >> > > >> Makes sense. > > >> > > >> Brian > > plain text document attachment (awn-project-plan.txt) > > Item Name Owner Start Date Expected > > Completion comments > > > > Project Plan > > > > ARC one-pager Done. > > > > > > ARC fast track ongoing > > > > Open Source Review done > > > > ECCN Not start > > > > Porting done > > > > spec/SUNWspec file done > > to spec-files-other/core > > > > copyright file done > > to spec-files-other/copyright > > > > G11n done need send a request to > > Takao.Fujiwara at Sun.COM and cc desktop-discuss at opensolaris.org > > > > launch menu, done need to send the .desktop file to > > calum benson, have a description of your project and why you want to put it > > to the menu. > > > > ARC Material not start dump -Lv/ CLI.txt(--help)/ > > manpage / schemas/ pkgmap > > > > manpage not start > > > > test&fix not start > > > > ======================= Not necessary > > ============================================== > > Cteam Checklist HenryZ Mar. 1 07 Mar. 15 07 > > Not necessary > > > > Contract HenryZ Mar. 20 07 Mar. 30 07 > > ongoing > > > > TPT HenryZ Mar. 19 07 Mar. 21 07 > > Done. And store at /net/solaris.eng/benet/S11/TPT/JDS/virt-manager > > > > "What's New" Form at > > http://releaseme.sfbay/new_features_input.html > > > > Write Test Plan PatrickG Dec. 18 06 Dec. 23 06 > > Done, > > > > UI review Calum Nov. 21 06 Nov. 30 06 > > Have sent mail to Calum, > > > > Pre-integration Test PatrickG Mar. 22 07 Apr. 15 07 > > Preparing by Patrick Gu > > > > A11Y testing TimM Mar. 22 07 Apr. 20 07 > > Need confirm from TimM > > > > L10n HelenW Dec. 25 06 Jan. 01 07 > > Need confirm from HelenW > > > > TOI > > > > Doc plan > > manpages, project plan, TPT, What's New doc(S10U) etc. > > > > Pre-integ Bug Fixing HenryZ Apr. 15 07 Apr. 30 07 > > B65 code freeze date is May 4 07, but there is holiday on May 1~7 > > >
