Hi, All I am reseting the timeout to be August 4th.
--Irene On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 10:14 +0800, Henry Zhang wrote: > Hi all, > > I made some changes on the proposal to make it neat, please check. > Thank Brian for review... > > Regards, > Henry > > Henry Zhang ??????: > > Hi Brain, See my answer in-line, > > > > And I finished the proposal to add some change from the discussing, see > > attachement. > > > > Thanks, > > Henry > > > > Brian Cameron ??????: > >> > >> Henry: > >> > >>>> What is the accessibility impact of this new mechanism of accessing > >>>> "applet like things"? Does this "just work" with accessibility? If > >>>> not, what is our plan to make it accessible? > >>> > >>> AWN is used to manage the running task, and some applets. We can use > >>> Ctl+Alt+Tab to access the running task, it should be accessibility > >>> support. > >>> For the applets in AWN, no way to access them through keyboard by now. > >> > >> I think it would be good to discuss some sort of get-well plan for a11y > >> in the materials. > > > > These days I discussed accessibility support with the community, they > > confirm me that they have not consider this issue, I will try to push > > them to see if they can do some work on it, at least I can see they > > begin to think add some support so that user can access AWN by keyboard. > > And by now we can use Ctl+Alt+Tab to switch in the running applications, > > so these should be support accessibility. > >> > >>>> Also, how does this relate to gDesklets? Although giving users choice > >>>> to customize their desktop is a good thing, I hope we aren't going to > >>>> end up with a mish-mash of random eyecandy that doesn't work well or > >>>> integrate together. > >>> > >>> There is no confliction between gDesklets and AWN, gDesklets used to > >>> place the applets to desktop, AWN will run applets in its dock. The > >>> applets is different, for gDesklets, using .display file, while AWN > >>> need .desktop file in the applet package. > >> > >> Might be good to explain the relationship between gnome-panel, > >> gDesklets, and avant-window-navigator in the materials a bit more. > > Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal. > >> > >>>> Do users need to compile code to install a new applet, or are the > >>>> applets interpreted (e.g. Python code) so that users can just > >>>> install an > >>>> applet and it will just work without needing to do extra complicated > >>>> things like compile code? > >>> > >>> Yes, for Python applet, user can use awn-manager to install directly, > >>> no compile needed. For C, need to build and install. > >> > >> That's good to hear. You could also explain this in the materials a bit > >> more. > > > > Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal. > >> > >>>>> If someone develop the applet for AWN, should follow Applet > >>>>> Submission at http://wiki.awn-project.org/Awn_Extras:Applet_Submission > >>>> > >>>> Could you give some examples of what sorts of applets are available for > >>>> this framework? > >>> > >>> See http://wiki.awn-project.org/Applets:DevelopmentGuidelines, where > >>> list the detailed guideline on what the applet should be. > >>> You also can download awn-extras, there are some stable example. > >> > >> It doesn't seem like we have spent enough effort figuring out which > >> plugins we should/could be including by default. Wouldn't > >> avant-window-navigator be more useful if we shipped some plugin > >> features with it? > > They generally used to make the display effect better to look, so not > > necessary. > >> Do other distros ship any plugins with it? > >> Perhaps we should follow the general community lead here. Though > >> this could also be managed in a separate case, rather than this > >> case. > > From the webpage, the plugin is with awn-extras, so should in another > > project. And most of plugins are Ubuntu-special. > >> > >>>> What applets are installed by default and what do they do? > >>> > >>> Currently from what I can see, there is only 1 applet installed by > >>> default, it is Launch/Taskmanager, in order to add some other, have > >>> to use awn-extras. > >> > >> It would be nice if the case materials explained more about the one > >> applet that is installed by default, and what it does, in more detail. > > Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal. > > > >> > >>>> How active are third parties or individuals at creating applets? > >>> It really depend on the individual who like to contribute his applet > >>> to AWN, from what I can see, there definitely are quite some new > >>> applets provided by some developers. > >> > >> There sure are. I'm curious what applets other distributions might be > >> including by default. > > In AWN, by default there is only one applet, all other applets need to > > be added by awn-extras, I discussed with the community yesterday, they > > told me "There are some plans to include more applets in the core > > installation." > >> > >>>> I notice the Applet Gallery you describe is here: > >>>> http://wiki.awn-project.org/Applet_Gallery > >>>> > >>>> Which ones will we be shipping, if any? > >>> Most of the applets listed in Gallery are just in awn-extra, also > >>> there are some applets contributed by some developers, awn-extras is > >>> another different project, I tried to build it, failed, because all > >>> of applets are in this package, some applet need different > >>> dependencies, some of them are missing on Solaris, e.g. > >>> python-alsaaudio. > >> > >> On Solaris, we support SunAudio and will hopefully soon support OSS. So > >> any applets which depend on ALSA would obviously not work. It would be > >> nice if we provided (at the very least) a spec-file in spec-files-extra > >> to allow people to more easily build whatever extra plugins do work on > >> Solaris. > > Will do once got time.. > >> > >>>> Although it does look cool, I worry that it will confuse users if we > >>>> provide another interface that works very similar to gnome-panel. I > >>>> would appreciate more information about what our future plans are. > >>>> Will > >>>> avant-window-navigator replace gnome-panel, will it be used together > >>>> with gnome-panel, or is it expected that users will pick one or the > >>>> other to use? Perhaps you could explain a bit how you expect users > >>>> would actually use this in relation to gnome-panel. > >>> > >>> Yes, It's a big concern now, we have gnome-panel, should we ship AWN? > >>> At the moment, AWN can't replace gnome-panel, reason below: > >>> 1, AWN need compositing support, it means before run AWN, you have to > >>> make Compiz start, then AWN can run, so in the non-Compiz > >>> environment, we can only use gnome-panel. > >>> 2, There is no launch menu by default in AWN, and the AWN menu can't > >>> updates when applications are installed. > >>> 3, Trash in AWN is not stable enough now. > >>> 4, maybe something others I did not dig out.. > >> > >> Whether we ship AWN for these reasons is obviously a business decision > >> for the team to make. It shouldn't affect whether the ARC case is > >> approved or not. It might make most sense to integrate it when the > >> above issues are addressed. However, I would make sure you file bugs > >> upstream (probably with both the AWN and gnome-panel projects) to see > >> if we can encourage the upstream maintainers to address some of these > >> issues (along with the a11y issues). > >> > >> I'd talk it over with your project team. > > Yes, I did discuss with the project team, and I noticed they have > > realized these issue, and discussing how to fix them, but no schedule now. > >> > >>>> If they are intended to be used together, then is it likely that users > >>>> be confused by having two sets of interfaces that do very similar > >>>> things? > >>> > >>> Yes, this issue also bother me, so I'd say AWN can provide some > >>> different experience which gnome-panel can't provide, e.g. 3D.. > >>> So if user like to taste, he can download and use it. > >> > >> Right. > >> > >>>> managers (metacity and compiz). Users can easily manage switching > >>>> between the two because the GNOME configuration dialogs allows users to > >>>> pick which one they will use. This way users are prevented from > >>>> possibly trying to run both at the same time, making a more sane user > >>>> experience. Is switching back and forth between gnome-panel and > >>>> avant-window-navigator managed in a similar simple fashion? > >>> > >>> by now it's impossible to switch between them, because we can't > >>> remove gnome-panel. > >> > >> Seems it would be neat to enhance the desktop so users could more easily > >> switch between them if they wanted. > > Yes, I agree, so in Ubuntu, they generally close the gnome-panel at the > > bottom, and only make the top panel run, and AWN run at the bottom of > > screen, I think we can do in this way, and it's planned that AWN will be > > placed anywhere of screen, so in the future, we can make these 2 work > > together better.. > > > >> > >>>> Will we be integrating any of these Extra plugins with this case, or a > >>>> separate case? Or are you just informing us that end users can install > >>>> additional applets if they wish? > >>> > >>> They should be in awn-extras, it's another project, we may consider > >>> to deliver it separately. > >> > >> Makes sense. > >> > >> Brian > plain text document attachment (awn-project-plan.txt) > Item Name Owner Start Date Expected > Completion comments > > Project Plan > > ARC one-pager Done. > > > ARC fast track ongoing > > Open Source Review done > > ECCN Not start > > Porting done > > spec/SUNWspec file done > to spec-files-other/core > > copyright file done > to spec-files-other/copyright > > G11n done need send a request to > Takao.Fujiwara at Sun.COM and cc desktop-discuss at opensolaris.org > > launch menu, done need to send the .desktop file to calum > benson, have a description of your project and why you want to put it to the > menu. > > ARC Material not start dump -Lv/ CLI.txt(--help)/ manpage / > schemas/ pkgmap > > manpage not start > > test&fix not start > > ======================= Not necessary > ============================================== > Cteam Checklist HenryZ Mar. 1 07 Mar. 15 07 > Not necessary > > Contract HenryZ Mar. 20 07 Mar. 30 07 > ongoing > > TPT HenryZ Mar. 19 07 Mar. 21 07 > Done. And store at /net/solaris.eng/benet/S11/TPT/JDS/virt-manager > > "What's New" Form at > http://releaseme.sfbay/new_features_input.html > > Write Test Plan PatrickG Dec. 18 06 Dec. 23 06 > Done, > > UI review Calum Nov. 21 06 Nov. 30 06 > Have sent mail to Calum, > > Pre-integration Test PatrickG Mar. 22 07 Apr. 15 07 > Preparing by Patrick Gu > > A11Y testing TimM Mar. 22 07 Apr. 20 07 > Need confirm from TimM > > L10n HelenW Dec. 25 06 Jan. 01 07 > Need confirm from HelenW > > TOI > > Doc plan > manpages, project plan, TPT, What's New doc(S10U) etc. > > Pre-integ Bug Fixing HenryZ Apr. 15 07 Apr. 30 07 B65 > code freeze date is May 4 07, but there is holiday on May 1~7 >
