Hi Brain, See my answer in-line, And I finished the proposal to add some change from the discussing, see attachement.
Thanks, Henry Brian Cameron ??: > > Henry: > >>> What is the accessibility impact of this new mechanism of accessing >>> "applet like things"? Does this "just work" with accessibility? If >>> not, what is our plan to make it accessible? >> >> AWN is used to manage the running task, and some applets. We can use >> Ctl+Alt+Tab to access the running task, it should be accessibility >> support. >> For the applets in AWN, no way to access them through keyboard by now. > > I think it would be good to discuss some sort of get-well plan for a11y > in the materials. These days I discussed accessibility support with the community, they confirm me that they have not consider this issue, I will try to push them to see if they can do some work on it, at least I can see they begin to think add some support so that user can access AWN by keyboard. And by now we can use Ctl+Alt+Tab to switch in the running applications, so these should be support accessibility. > >>> Also, how does this relate to gDesklets? Although giving users choice >>> to customize their desktop is a good thing, I hope we aren't going to >>> end up with a mish-mash of random eyecandy that doesn't work well or >>> integrate together. >> >> There is no confliction between gDesklets and AWN, gDesklets used to >> place the applets to desktop, AWN will run applets in its dock. The >> applets is different, for gDesklets, using .display file, while AWN >> need .desktop file in the applet package. > > Might be good to explain the relationship between gnome-panel, > gDesklets, and avant-window-navigator in the materials a bit more. Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal. > >>> Do users need to compile code to install a new applet, or are the >>> applets interpreted (e.g. Python code) so that users can just install an >>> applet and it will just work without needing to do extra complicated >>> things like compile code? >> >> Yes, for Python applet, user can use awn-manager to install directly, >> no compile needed. For C, need to build and install. > > That's good to hear. You could also explain this in the materials a bit > more. Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal. > >>>> If someone develop the applet for AWN, should follow Applet >>>> Submission at http://wiki.awn-project.org/Awn_Extras:Applet_Submission >>> >>> Could you give some examples of what sorts of applets are available for >>> this framework? >> >> See http://wiki.awn-project.org/Applets:DevelopmentGuidelines, where >> list the detailed guideline on what the applet should be. >> You also can download awn-extras, there are some stable example. > > It doesn't seem like we have spent enough effort figuring out which > plugins we should/could be including by default. Wouldn't > avant-window-navigator be more useful if we shipped some plugin > features with it? They generally used to make the display effect better to look, so not necessary. >Do other distros ship any plugins with it? > Perhaps we should follow the general community lead here. Though > this could also be managed in a separate case, rather than this > case. From the webpage, the plugin is with awn-extras, so should in another project. And most of plugins are Ubuntu-special. > >>> What applets are installed by default and what do they do? >> >> Currently from what I can see, there is only 1 applet installed by >> default, it is Launch/Taskmanager, in order to add some other, have to >> use awn-extras. > > It would be nice if the case materials explained more about the one > applet that is installed by default, and what it does, in more detail. Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal. > >>> How active are third parties or individuals at creating applets? >> It really depend on the individual who like to contribute his applet >> to AWN, from what I can see, there definitely are quite some new >> applets provided by some developers. > > There sure are. I'm curious what applets other distributions might be > including by default. In AWN, by default there is only one applet, all other applets need to be added by awn-extras, I discussed with the community yesterday, they told me "There are some plans to include more applets in the core installation." > >>> I notice the Applet Gallery you describe is here: >>> http://wiki.awn-project.org/Applet_Gallery >>> >>> Which ones will we be shipping, if any? >> Most of the applets listed in Gallery are just in awn-extra, also >> there are some applets contributed by some developers, awn-extras is >> another different project, I tried to build it, failed, because all of >> applets are in this package, some applet need different dependencies, >> some of them are missing on Solaris, e.g. python-alsaaudio. > > On Solaris, we support SunAudio and will hopefully soon support OSS. So > any applets which depend on ALSA would obviously not work. It would be > nice if we provided (at the very least) a spec-file in spec-files-extra > to allow people to more easily build whatever extra plugins do work on > Solaris. Will do once got time.. > >>> Although it does look cool, I worry that it will confuse users if we >>> provide another interface that works very similar to gnome-panel. I >>> would appreciate more information about what our future plans are. Will >>> avant-window-navigator replace gnome-panel, will it be used together >>> with gnome-panel, or is it expected that users will pick one or the >>> other to use? Perhaps you could explain a bit how you expect users >>> would actually use this in relation to gnome-panel. >> >> Yes, It's a big concern now, we have gnome-panel, should we ship AWN? >> At the moment, AWN can't replace gnome-panel, reason below: >> 1, AWN need compositing support, it means before run AWN, you have to >> make Compiz start, then AWN can run, so in the non-Compiz environment, >> we can only use gnome-panel. >> 2, There is no launch menu by default in AWN, and the AWN menu can't >> updates when applications are installed. >> 3, Trash in AWN is not stable enough now. >> 4, maybe something others I did not dig out.. > > Whether we ship AWN for these reasons is obviously a business decision > for the team to make. It shouldn't affect whether the ARC case is > approved or not. It might make most sense to integrate it when the > above issues are addressed. However, I would make sure you file bugs > upstream (probably with both the AWN and gnome-panel projects) to see > if we can encourage the upstream maintainers to address some of these > issues (along with the a11y issues). > > I'd talk it over with your project team. Yes, I did discuss with the project team, and I noticed they have realized these issue, and discussing how to fix them, but no schedule now. > >>> If they are intended to be used together, then is it likely that users >>> be confused by having two sets of interfaces that do very similar >>> things? >> >> Yes, this issue also bother me, so I'd say AWN can provide some >> different experience which gnome-panel can't provide, e.g. 3D.. >> So if user like to taste, he can download and use it. > > Right. > >>> managers (metacity and compiz). Users can easily manage switching >>> between the two because the GNOME configuration dialogs allows users to >>> pick which one they will use. This way users are prevented from >>> possibly trying to run both at the same time, making a more sane user >>> experience. Is switching back and forth between gnome-panel and >>> avant-window-navigator managed in a similar simple fashion? >> >> by now it's impossible to switch between them, because we can't remove >> gnome-panel. > > Seems it would be neat to enhance the desktop so users could more easily > switch between them if they wanted. Yes, I agree, so in Ubuntu, they generally close the gnome-panel at the bottom, and only make the top panel run, and AWN run at the bottom of screen, I think we can do in this way, and it's planned that AWN will be placed anywhere of screen, so in the future, we can make these 2 work together better.. > >>> Will we be integrating any of these Extra plugins with this case, or a >>> separate case? Or are you just informing us that end users can install >>> additional applets if they wish? >> >> They should be in awn-extras, it's another project, we may consider to >> deliver it separately. > > Makes sense. > > Brian -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: proposal-one-pager-awn.txt URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-arc/attachments/20080729/cd8547eb/attachment.txt>
