On Fri, 20 Mar 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
It saddens me to see Simon, Sun's ombudsman, mischaracterize Roy's
constructive input as "extreme anger" and "picking at scabs".
For those that don't know Dr Fielding's history with the OpenSolaris
project, Dr. Fielding was invited by Sun to join the project because
Sun wanted to create an Open Source project similar to what Roy had
achieved before in creating the Apache Foundation. Dr. Fielding is a
serious computer scientist who helped develop the HTTP protocol, is
one of the original authors of the Apache web server and helped found
the Apache foundation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Fielding
Much of the controversy that is happening now is due to Sun's
ombudsman, Simon Phipps, driving a change to the founding documents,
constitution and charter for the OpenSolaris organization, so they
match the "facts on the ground", rather than the original ideals as
laid out by Sun. Apparently the powers that be have had a change of
heart about how open they want the project to be. ie. originally the
Open in OpenSolaris meant "Open Source" and "Open Development Model".
Sun no longer truly seems interested in these and Open has become just
a marketing term, to be bandied about.
I guess my view on this topic of changing the Constitution and charter
is that, yes, Sun can dissolve the community and replace it with one
that fits their new goals, but I certainly do not have to endorse the
change, nor does anyone have to vote for it. I suspect that if plan A
to get the community to change the constitution and charter by vote
fails, Sun will just do it. If they do, we have the right to create a
foundation and fork the project.
-Brian
On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Simon Phipps <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks for the input, Roy. I doubt I can ever resolve the extreme anger at
Sun you've been exhibiting in your posts to this list (I know you are still
on it in error by the way and I apologise in advance - I hope someone is
fixing it for everyone). And I know you will always out-argue me even when
I'm right, because you are a brilliant logician and rhetorician :-) But
still, one more comment, masochist that I am.
I disagree with you because of the very realities of the OpenSolaris
community you're characterising so sarcastically. We all had the fight with
Sun over OpenSolaris over a year ago, and many of us (me included) were very
unhappy about it. That was then.
The outcome is what it is and we now are where we are. The correct
formulation for the Charter/Constitution is to have clear, simple rules
about how the community will administer itself, have the Charter make the
big statements of purpose and take the two documents together as the
definition for the community. To do otherwise is to pretend we have a say in
things we don't and to pick at scabs that should be left to heal.
You left because you didn't like that - I have no idea why you feel the need
to come back and say what you're saying. Please don't drag up all the hatred
again.
S.
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- Brian Gupta
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On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:23 AM, W. Wayne Liauh <[email protected]>
tried to respond::
For those that don't know Dr Fielding's history with
the OpenSolaris
project,
Oh yes, I remember him vividly as the person who apparently was so
despised of the fact that the desktop >
community dared to sponsore the Indiana project that he went through the
process of trying to disfranchise the
desktop community, totally oblivious of another perhaps much more
important fact that many Solaris wannabes are
using the desktop community as the gateway to their newly-discovered
promised land.
W. Wayne Liauh, so are you then implying, that Dr. Fielding is just
somebody who can silently be ignored, a script kiddie? Somebody who is
incapable of analyzing a problem? What did you say, a
"Solaris-Wannabe"??? Who only wants to catch attention (because he
otherwise doesn't get any)? This is interesting.
If you feel that you are in a position to make any statement of that
sort about the entire issue as described by Dr. Fielding and Mr. Brian
Gupta, where are your references? Where is your wikipedia.org entry
end where are the internationally recognized fruits of your work, such
as standards-organizations approved white-papers, among a myriad of
other contributions?
This is not a personal attack.
I'm simply matter-of-facts- and purely subject-oriented.
And I don't know why Sun wants to push through any new constitution.
Normally changes to constitutions most of the time happen after lost
wars. I see an analogy here. And the OpenSolaris community is the
loser. Don't you realize this?
p.s. I hope Sun survives and I wish Sun much luck, from heart.
But I am embarrassed by the fact, that Brian Gupta and Dr. Fielding
are simply right with their concerns. People with a short memory and
the natural tendency to romantize the (otherwise quite raw) world
around them, might simply forget and forgive. A few others, including
myself, on the other hand can (or could) forgive, but not forget. Some true
understanding/self-criticism/insight and an official apology to the
OpenSolaris.org community would be a beginning. Until this happens,
the remains of a once existing (devel.-) community should not simply
forgive Sun. Take the time to re-read Brian's and Roy's messages,
until you understand this.
I do hope that Sun comes healthy out of the current recession and
that nobody loses her or his job.
Martin Bochnig
(various upcoming distros
based on conary and else
for SPARC and x64, incl.
MartUX, Natamar, AtonUX)
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