Flavio Percoco wrote: > On 11/02/15 17:19 +0000, Amrith Kumar wrote: >> Personally, I think the focus on password protected IRC channels is a >> distraction from the real issue that we need to ensure that the >> rapidly growing community is one where public discussion and decision >> making are still "the norm". Let's be adult about it and realize that >> people will have private conversations. What we need to focus on is >> ensuring that the community rejects "private decision making". > > I personally don't care if you have private discussions with other > folks regardless of what their ATC status and impact on the community > is. You're free to do so, I don't plan to critizice that and that's > entirely your problem. However, I do care when those discussions > happen in a private IRC channel because I don't beleive that's neither > good for our community nor necessary. > > It's not good for our community because it *excludes* people that are > not in such channels and it creates the wrong message around what core > means, just like it happened with "integrated" projects and like it > happens with PTLs. In addition to that, it isolates discussions which > is something we've been encouraging people not to do because not > everyone sees it the same way.
Right. You can't prevent occasional private discussions and pings, and you shouldn't. It's when you encourage and officialize them (by for example creating a channel for them) that things start to go bad. I've been using IRC for more than 20 years, and with various FOSS communities. I've been in a number of private channels, and they *always* are a slippery slope to a private club, which quickly turns into a clique. Those are cozy and convenient: only your friends are listening, nobody objects with you. It really takes a non-trivial amount of effort on all participants to continue having public discussions where they belong, because it's easier and more natural to talk to a controlled group. When I was working at Canonical, we continually struggled to have the Ubuntu Server discussions in the Freenode #ubuntu-server channel instead of on the Canonical IRC #server channel. That's only human nature. We can't avoid companies setting up private IRC channels. But we can avoid OpenStack project teams from setting those up. And I really think we should. Private discussions should be exceptional rather than the norm, and avoiding setting up IRC channels for them is a great way to ensure they stay exceptional. -- Thierry Carrez (ttx)
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