On Wed, Feb 11, 2015, at 09:14 AM, Stefano Maffulli wrote: > On Wed, 2015-02-11 at 10:55 +0100, Flavio Percoco wrote: > > This email is dedicated to the openness of our community/project. > > It's good to have a reminder every now and then. Thank you Flavio for > caring enough to notice bad patterns and for raising a flag. > > > ## Keep discussions open > > > > I don't believe there's anything wrong about kicking off some > > discussions in private channels about specs/bugs. I don't believe > > there's anything wrong in having calls to speed up some discussions. > > HOWEVER, I believe it's *completely* wrong to consider those private > > discussions sufficient. > [...] > > Well said. Conversations can happen anywhere and any time, but they > should stay in open and accessible channels. Consensus needs to be built > and decisions need to be shared, agreed upon by the community at large > (and mailing lists are the most accessible media we have). > > That said, it's is very hard to generalize and I'd rather deal/solve > specific examples. Sometimes, I'm sure there are episodes when a fast > decision was needed and a limited amount of people had to carry the > burden of responsibility. Life is hard, software development is hard and > general rules sometimes need to be adapted to the reality. Again, too > much generalization here for what I'm confortable with. > > Maybe it's worth repeating that I'm personally (and in my role) > available to listen and mediate in cases when communication seems to > happen behind closed doors. If you think something unhealthy is > happening, talk to me (confidentiality assured). > > > ## Mailing List vs IRC Channel > > > > I get it, our mailing list is freaking busy, keeping up with it is > > hard and time consuming and that leads to lots of IRC discussions. > > Not sure I agree with the causality but, the facts are those: traffic on > the list and on IRC is very high (although not increasing anymore > [1][2]). > > > I > > don't think there's anything wrong with that but I believe it's wrong > > to expect *EVERYONE* to be in the IRC channel when those discussions > > happen. > > Email is hard, I have the feeling that the vast majority of people use > bad (they all suck, no joke) email clients. Lots and lots of email is > even worse. Most contributors commit very few patches: the investment > for them to configure their MUA to filter our traffic is too high. > > I have added more topics today to the openstack-dev list[3]. Maybe, > besides filtering on the receiving end, we may spend some time > explaining how to use mailman topics? I'll draft something on Ask, it > may help those that have limited interest in OpenStack. > > What else can we do to make things better? > > > ## Cores are *NOT* special > > > > At some point, for some reason that is unknown to me, this message > > changed and the feeling of core's being some kind of superheros became > > a thing. It's gotten far enough to the point that I've came to know > > that some projects even have private (flagged with +s), password > > protected, irc channels for core reviewers. > > This is seriously disturbing. > > If you're one of those core reviewers hanging out on a private channel, > please contact me privately: I'd love to hear from you why we failed as > a community at convincing you that an open channel is the place to be. > > No public shaming, please: education first.
Thanks for stepping in, Stef. I want to also back what Sean said elsewhere in the thread, though. This appears to be a serious breach of the openness policies of the project. I hope the team in question resolves the situation themselves, and quickly. Doug > > Cheers, > stef > > > [1] http://activity.openstack.org/dash/browser/mls.html > [2] http://activity.openstack.org/dash/browser/irc.html > [3] thanks to Luigi Toscano for highlighting some missing ones > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: > openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __________________________________________________________________________ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev