On Mon, 2007-09-10 at 05:34 -0400, Richard C Creighton wrote: > I have left this 'unsnipped' because it is an important discussion: > > Magnus Boman wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-09-10 at 09:21 +0200, Clayton wrote: > > > >>> Clayton's second email in this thread resumes why they shouldnt have > >>> made a separated version of yast sw_single. And if it was to have > >>> improvements in qt version (which several people think it needs, I > >>> think it needs too), then they could make the improvements in qt > >>> version, and have the gtk version exactly like the qt version, so it > >>> would be more consistent, dont you agree? > >>> > >>> But that hasnt happened, I tell you why I think it hasnt happened: > >>> 1) Gnome guys want to make it different, they dont care about having a > >>> consistent look in both versions > >>> 2) They (the original yast guys and the gnome guys) cant agree in a > >>> way of doing it. They cant agree or they dont care > >>> > >>> From observation fo what has happened seems both (1) and (2) are true > >>> > >> This is EXACTLY my point. I think it's great that the Google Summer > >> of Code resulted in a GTK version of YAST for Gnome (I was vaguely > >> aware of it when it happened from conversations about it on the > >> mailing list). What boggles my mind is that instead of getting a GTK > >> _version_ of the software manager, we get a TOTALLY different software > >> manager. This is NOT good. This is a bad thing. Support now has to > >> have two different procedures in mixed KDE/Gnome environment using the > >> SAME distribution. > >> > >> I do a lot of phone support for remote openSUSE installs. They are a > >> mix of Gnome and KDE depending on the preference of the users... they > >> are going to be migrating to 10.3 a couple of months after it is > >> released... and I am facing the mess of retraining half my user base > >> on the software installer because of a poorly thought out change in > >> the core tools that make openSUSE better than the other distributions. > >> I am seriously disappointed here. I know I should have raised this > >> waaaay back in the early Alpha stages, but I didn't notice this then. > >> > >> YAST is one of the shiny bits about openSUSE. It is bar none, my > >> favorite admin tool in any distribution. It works. It works well, > >> and up until now, it didn't matter if you were using Gnome, KDE, > >> WindowMaker or whatever... it was consistent and predictable. As a > >> support person, that is CRITICAL. I can't stress this enough! > >> > >> In answer to a couple of points raised by Rajko.... > >> > >> This is not a case of "I don't like it because I am not used to it." > >> This is a case of a change that makes the life of support (and > >> Documentation) a royal pain in the backside. This was an unnecessary > >> change... > >> > >> I could care less about icons. Personally I think the Tango icons are > >> incredibly ugly, but if they are the ones used in YAST, then fine.. > >> it's just an icon. I don't care and I will use it (yes I am aware > >> that I can switch to Crystal icons, but I can't be bothered to do > >> this... it's not that important). > >> > >> Small differences between the text version and the QT version are > >> fine... you will never get a complete clone from one interface to > >> another... and if the GTK native version of YAST was marginally > >> different, I could live with it. Instead we get something that isn't > >> even remotely similar. I thought, oh, this is just the default and if > >> I click one of the other view options I can get something similar to > >> the QT version.. instead I get something even worse for usability. > >> > >> So... what am I saying? It's fine to gave a GTK version of YAST but > >> NOT at the cost of loosing the consistency in the toolset that makes > >> openSUSE better than everyone else. This is the situation we have now > >> with 10.3, and frankly, I'm VERY disappointed (just in case you > >> couldn't already tell from my rant here) > >> > >> C. > >> > > > > It's not like you are forced to use it you know. > > sudo sed -i -e > > 's:^WANTED_GUI="auto":WANTED_GUI="qt":' /etc/sysconfig/yast2 > > Voila, your problem is solved. > > > > Cheers, > > Magnus > > > > > I have been following this thread with interest. Magnus, you are > obviously among the elite when it comes to ability to devise solutions > to problems like this but for many the solution will end up being > "Format C:" Install Vista: Enter 20 digit CD key code: > That solution is the solution the masses understand because they are NOT > software engineers, they are Windoze escapees and Linux hopefuls, > Hopeful that Linux, SuSE in particular will offer them a solution to > Redmond and Company and the never ending 'Give us more money for less > and less substance with more and more paranoia and company self serving > 'you are a thief' cpu stealing cycles that do nothing except ensure you > have paid for your copy of a bug-ridden OS so full of security holes > that an industry has risen to exploit the software hole patching > business. Linux and SuSE in particular is their (and my) hope, but the > elegance and flexibility of your solution will certainly elude 99.9% of > them and certainly during the installation or shortly thereafter, few > will know how to do such magic that SuSE is capable of.
I seriously don't think that anyone that's prepared to format C: (meaning that they are probably running DOS or Windows already) and install Vista would have had Linux in mind anyway if they followed this thread. > > Thus, the issue becomes not *can* SuSE do it but *does* SuSE do it 'out > of the box' in such a way that is intuitive and consistant and > importantly, understandable to the unwashed masses coming from the world > of Windoze and even from earlier versions of SuSE or other distros. > Installation programs are NOT the place to expound upon the virtues of > KDE *or* GNOME or any other GUI for that matter. It is a place to get > the OS installed with as few problems as possible with as wide an > equipment and environment base as possible and with a consistency that > allows product support the greatest chance to succeed when trouble > arises and the customers cries for help. Which could be a valid point, so let's discuss that as adults in another thread. I'm hopeful that Clayton will start it on the project ml. > > Sincerely, a real friend of Linux/SuSE > Richard Creighton Cheers, Magnus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
