+1

/js

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 07:18:38AM +0100, Eliot Lear wrote:
> We need to back away from using bureaucratic process that will chase away 
> developers for no good reason.  Do you think Guy Harris has the time or 
> inclination to do this twice for no good reason?
> 
> Even broken as it was, TACACS+ was NOT an ISE document.  Neither was JSON.  
> There is NO precedent for a spec we want to move forward as an IETF spec to 
> go through the ISE.  If it’s within this group’s purview, we should take it.  
> The ISE is a relief valve, not a go to.  We would be misusing that process, 
> and I would likely object to doing so.
> 
> If people insist that the document should be informational, fine, but even 
> that is a lie.  This is an evolving de facto standard, and not recognizing it 
> as de jure seems silly.  Worse, by forcing people down this road, we are 
> doubling the amount of work to get to a proposed standard.  And for what?  Do 
> we really think we’re going to change that much even in that process?  
> Looking back it was even silly for JSON to have gone through informational.  
> It was a waste of everyone’s time.  The final stage was what was important, 
> and the mods were modest.
> 
> TACACS+ was different.  The IETF would not have endorsed TACACS+ in its 
> current form, but having it written was important for both implementors and 
> deployments to understand what they were seeing a lot of on the wire.
> 
> Recognize why the rules exist and use them appropriately.  This should go 
> forward as a PS candidate.
> 
> Eliot
> 
> > On 13 Nov 2020, at 01:54, Michael Richardson <[email protected] 
> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> > 
> > Signed PGP part
> > 
> > Alan DeKok <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> 
> > wrote:
> >>> (or who read THEDRAFT), but i remember older RFCs that clearly state when 
> >>> a protocol
> >>> is a proprietary vendor protocol not developed by the IETF. I think this 
> >>> RFC should
> >>> have done it too for clarity. BY not writing it clearly, it looks like a 
> >>> particular
> >>> vendor endorsement by IETF in an inappropriate fashion.
> > 
> >> That's a reasonable point.  But the doc is "Informational", and the
> >> protocol has a 20+ year history.  So it's pretty clear where it came
> >> from.  And, that documentation does not imply endorsement.
> > 
> > Hi, so PCAPNG does not have a 20+ year history.  More like 6-8 year.
> > *PCAP* does have ~30 year history.
> > 
> > MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <[email protected] 
> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >> I have a suggestion:  the pcapng work proposal goes forward as *two 
> >> drafts*:
> > 
> >> 1. a draft intended as an Independent Submission RFC to describe
> >> pcapng/2010 *as-is*.
> > 
> > That would be draft-gharris-opsawg-pcap-00, and I will bring it to ISE.
> > If this WG would prefer to adopt is as a set, that's fine with me.
> > There are IANA Registries that could move around.
> > 
> >> 2. a proposal for a WG draft, to collect all the new/good ideas while
> >> (probably) maintaining backward compatibility with pcapng/2010 and the
> >> utilities that read/write it.
> > 
> > That would be draft-tuexen-opsawg-pcapng-02
> > 
> >> The WG helps prepare *both* drafts, but when 1. is deemed complete and
> >> accurate it heads off to the Independent Stream.
> > 
> >> I have zero skin in this game, except that I capture packets whenever I 
> >> need to...
> > 
> > I have this image of Cookie Monster.
> > 
> > --
> > Michael Richardson <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>   
> > . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
> >           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
> > 
> > 
> 

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-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

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