ah but my boss was breathing down my neck as well......
>From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
>Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 08:00:26 -0800
>
>You have to be like an ankylosaurus, with armour plating everywhere, and
>spikes on your tail. The armour plating to deal automatically with frets
>while you continue concentrating on your work, and spikes to keep people
>away to give you room to get the job done.
>
>If you can't bring the database back up you KNOW you will be out of a job.
>
>If you can bring it back, they can fire you but at least you will know that
>the database came back up. Be prepared to explain everything you do. If
>you can demonstrate that you took the time that it would have taken, then
>the monkey is off your back and if people are not happy they will look for
>other causes (OPS? Other vendor? More staff? More hardware? Better, more
>thorough testing procedures before implementing change?).
>
>Your only option is to be methodical, and bring the system back up. It
>will
>take the time that it takes - think things through, do it right the first
>time. One step at a time, until it's complete. Focus. There's no time to
>panic anyway, do that after the crisis is over. Fear and anger just waste
>time. Life is too short for that nonsense on "regular" days, it's even
>more
>obvious while there is a crisis. Chickens flying around in a wild frenzy
>never manage to achieve anything constructive. Listen to their concerns,
>if
>there is a good comment use it, otherwise just let them lose feathers.
>
>If some people need help leaving you alone, arrange for that to happen -
>tell your boss that interference is slowing down recovery time, please keep
>this person away from me. Maybe appoint someone to filter messages and
>have
>one contact person.
>
>It also helps others to see that the person responsible for bringing the
>system back up is methodical and calm. You can tell people in many cases:
>"We haven't lost any data, it's all there. I am recovering the database
>now
>as fast as I can, but it WILL take some time. Can't say how long right
>now,
>but I am going as fast as possible, believe me I want this system back up
>as
>much as you do."
>
>Regards,
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des syst�mes
>Technology Services | Services technologiques
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
>Maritimes Region, DFO | R�gion des Maritimes, MPO
>
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Ph: (902) 426-4774
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 11:36 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
>
> want to tell me how you hold off the CEO who is breathing down your
>neck on
> the 24x7 database that's down?
>
>
> >From: "William Beilstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: Taking your time when a crisis occurs
> >Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 05:30:57 -0800
> >
> >I agree, many serious problems have been created by DBA's that act
>before
> >they think things through. When I have a problem with the database,
>I get a
> >cup of coffee, put my feet up, and think about what happened and
>what to do
> >to solve the problem. Between corrupted data files, hardware
>crashed, bad
> >data in tables and other nasties, I have never failed to take care
>of the
> >problem, because I figured out what to do before starting the
>repair.
> >
> > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/07/01 04:30AM >>>
> >The golden rule when there is a big crash is :
> >1. Panic
> >2. Stop panic
> >3. Fix the problem
> >
> >
> >--- "Hallas, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a �crit : >
> >FOR YOUR INFORMATION
> > >
> > > ESIS and EPFAL are now part of Logica. The Internet
> > > email addresses of the staff has changed to the
> > > following - [EMAIL PROTECTED] eg
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emails using the old format will
> > > continue to be delivered until 30th June 2001.
> > >
> > > David,
> > > I support what you say about taking your time
> > > entirely. In fact at any
> > > interviews I attend backup/recovery question(s)n are
> > > always asked. My
> > > standard answer is the at then first thing I will do
> > > is go for a cup of
> > > coffee. After their jaws have finished dropping I
> > > explain how thinking time
> > > is required etc.
> > >
> > > On a similar theme a few years ago I was
> > > interviewing for a contract DBA
> > > and he made the statement along the lines of 'you
> > > are paying me more because
> > > I have made mistakes before and I have learnt from
> > > them so you will be safe
> > > with me'. ( I am sure he phrased it more eloquently
> > > than that).
> > > After the interview the senior manager at the
> > > interview said that he would
> > > not have anyone as self-obsessed and over-confident
> > > as that on board. I
> > > disagreed and said that what the contractor was
> > > offering was exactly what we
> > > wanted. We took him on and he fitted in very well.
> > > This story fits in with
> > > the concept of getting a coffee and thinking about
> > > things first, which is
> > > all about using your experience well.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > Logica/ESIS Tel 0115 945 6643
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: David A. Barbour
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: 03 May 2001 18:46
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: Fwd: please help
> > >
> > > Jared,
> > >
> > > I think you hit the nail on the head when you said
> > > "Best
> > > practice of
> > > course is to make a backup of your database in
> > > it's current
> > > condition
> > > prior to restoring it."
> > >
> > > Too many recoveries are failures because DBAs tend
> > > to forget
> > > basics when
> > > confronted with the pressures from management,
> > > users, and
> > > the
> > > constraints of time (primary key). I made this
> > > mistake once
> > > early on.
> > > Now if I have a possible recovery scenario, the
> > > first thing
> > > I do is take
> > > a deep breath, get a cup of coffee, and THINK
> > > about what I'm
> > > going to do
> > > before I ever touch the keyboard.
> > >
> > > Absent all that, I still make a copy of the redo
> > > logs
> > > whenever I do a
> > > backup. Yeah, you could mess up and apply them
> > > inadvertently, but
> > > hopefully you will have practiced recovery
> > > scenarios (see
> > > "Training a
> > > DBA" by Kimberly Smith) and be comfortable with
> > > your tapes,
> > > disks,
> > > commands, systems administrator, etc. At least if
> > > you've
> > > got them, and
> > > everything goes to h*%$ in a handbasket, you can
> > > always give
> > > 'them' back
> > > something.
> > >
> > > David A. Barbour
> > >
> > >
> > > Jared Still wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dick,
> > > >
> > > > Backing up the redo logs can have some serious
> > > consequences.
> > > >
> > > > Let's say you are restoring the database files,
> > > and a
> > > number of
> > > > archived logs to roll forward through.
> > > >
> > > > Following that, you are going to roll forward
> > > through all
> > > archived logs
> > > > that are still online, and then through your
> > > current redo
> > > logs for a
> > > > complete recovery.
> > > >
> > > > Restoring old redo logs would render this
> > > strategy
> > > ineffective.
> > > >
> > > > Backing them up can be a good thing, but it
> > > would be very
> > > easy
> > > > to inadvertently wipe out the current ones when
> > > restoring
> > > from tape.
> > > >
> > > > Best practice of course is to make a backup of
> > > your
> > > database in
> > > > it's current condition prior to restoring it.
> > > >
> > > > It would also be prudent to make copies of the
> > > redo logs
> > > locally
> > > > so you don't have to restore them from tape.
> > > >
> > > > Jared
> > > >
> > > > On Wednesday 02 May 2001 07:24, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Jonathan,
> > > > >
> > > > > It would appear that your friend has hit
> > > upon one of
> > > the problems of
> > > > > hot backups that everyone misses and actually
> > > Oracle
> > > recommends against.
> > > > > That is backing up your online redo log files
> > > and doing
> > > that LAST. The
> > > > > reason is that there are more than likely
> > > active
> > > transactions that were
> > > > > recorded therein and those logs are not
> > > available. Can
> > > he complete the
> > > > > recovery, maybe if he has the remaining logs
> > > from the
> > > active system, I'm
> > > > > assuming he is recovering to somewhere other
> > > than his
> > > production system.
> > > > > Otherwise his only recourse is OTS.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dick Goulet
> > > > > Oracle Certified 8i DBA
> > > > >
> > > > > ____________________Reply
> > > Separator____________________
> > > > > Author: Jonathan Gennick
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Date: 5/1/2001 8:55 PM
> > > > >
> > > > > Fellow list members, I received the following
> > > email from
> > > a
> > > > > reader a few minutes ago. If you skip down to
> > > where he
> > > talks
> > > > > about backup, you'll see that he's in trouble
> > > with a
> > > > > database that won't recover. I've already
> > > suggested that
> > > he
> > > > > open a TAR, and that he supply more specifics
> > > as to
> > > error
> > > > > messages and the like, but maybe someone on
> > > this list
> > > can
> > > > > draw some conclusions from what he's told me
> > > so far. If
> > > > > you're good at recovery, have a look at what
> > > he says.
> > > I'll
> > > > > post his email address later if he says its
> > > ok,
> >=== message truncated ===
> >
> >
> >=====
> >St�phane Paquette
> >DBA Oracle, consultant entrep�t de donn�es
> >Oracle DBA, datawarehouse consultant
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >___________________________________________________________
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> Author: Rachel Carmichael
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>Author: Boivin, Patrice J
> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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