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Did you mean... "MS SQL
Server is a relational database" and not MS Access?
Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle DBA)
Acting Head, System Admin & Operations
Bedford Institute of Oceanography
Fisheries and Oceans Canada
As someone with 7 years in the HR (Compensation) field, and now
in the IT/ERP field working on my Oracle DBA OCP, I can speak with some
knowledge and experience.
Using the term "Entry Level" on a resume is self-defeating. Most
technical resumes are still screened by by the HR departments first, before
the hiring managers even see them. A good recruiter will be able to
identify whether you have the experience or not. If not, they will defer
a judgment call to the hiring IT manager anyway. That doesn't mean that
you should lie on your resume or deceive anyone. But don't shoot
yourself in the foot before you even get your foot in the door.
Annual salaries for DBAs are, indeed, coming down. If you can
get ahold of a good IT salary survey, make note of not only the average
salary, but the median salary. The median salary is what is commonly
used to benchmark a position--not the average salary. If a formal
salary structure exists at a company, they will normally use the median as the
compa-ratio for the particular paygrade or step. Use common sense, do
your homework, and ask what you're worth; but always leave room for
compromise.
MS Access IS a relational database. However it is a file-server
application, not a client-server database, and was not designed to handle
large transactional systems over a large network. It is designed for
small to medium sized, non mission-critical business environments.
Properly designed, MS Access can serve many purposes, but you will never find
Payroll or Financial systems using MS Access as a db platform or
front-end. MS Access is a great environment for learning databases and
SQL, but it is only a starting point.
Concerning Oracle training--use everything that you can afford. If
it's a career-change, then consider formal Oracle University instructor-led
training classes. If you're already in the field, then self-study may
work. It takes tremendous self-discipline to go the self-study route
with books and CDS or online training.
People who say that the OCP is valueless to the market have never
tested. I say to them--why not test?
Edward Lock
Sr. Programmer Analyst
PeopleSoft Project Office, University of Houston System
----- Original Message -----
From:
Karniotis, Stephen
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 12:08
PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Becoming a DBA
questions
Good afternoon all:
I have been holding
back on replying to this email because I really
wanted to see what some
of the other answers were, especially ones related
to OCP. Rachel
C. will understand as my answers will be very direct.
1. What is the
average salary range for an entry-level DBA position? Or
a position for
someone who is just starting out as a DBA?
>>> As a person that
has worked as an Oracle DBA for over 13
years, the entry-level salary had
changed quite dramatically. From the
mid-to late 1990s when
starting DBAs could make upwards of 100K to "REALITY"
when entry-level
DBAs should be making no more than 70K. Some may disagree,
however,
I don't think paying high salaries is warranted just because the
person
is a DBA. If they don't have the experience, they don't deserve
the
high monetary return. I would say that 50K is probably on the
high end for
entry-level DBAs. The days of high salaries, similarly
the high consulting
rates, are gone and organizations are now back to
reality. I actually had
someone whom has been out of work for over
6 months refuse a salary of 65K
as a DBA because he felt it was demeaning
for him to accept it.
2. In a job resume, should I request an
entry-level position or would
that set me up for no phone
calls?
>>> I disagree with everyone else regarding not
using
"entry-level" on your resume. If you have no experience and
you are looking
to work in a team environment, then using this wording is
acceptable. You
will have to pick the job postings carefully so you
don't send resumes to
organizations that require lots of
experience. If you can control that,
then remove "entry-level" and
use "junior" instead.
3. What are some steps I should take to
becoming a DBA w/ the
background that I have (ie. generated databases w/
MS Access)?
>>> Well, MS Access, although people consider this a
relational
database, is not. It is a file system that looks like a
relational
database. Generating databases in MS Access is nothing
like creating
database environments in Oracle. You will honestly
need to start from
scratch. The data modeling and application
database creating may be similar
if you followed the normalization rules
and generally accepted guidelines.
I would highly recommend using either
Oracle's online learning network,
locating a college/university where
they teach Oracle. These do exist as I
have taught several of these
classes in Michigan. I would highly recommend
contacting the Los
Angeles Oracle User's Group for the location of courses
that are
taught.
If you are a devoted person when it comes to online training,
then
Oracle online learning is a good start. There are other
organizations that
offer Oracle online training, however, I don't
remember their names.
Understand that online training only provides you
the bare basics. It is
not going to give you the exposure and
experience needed to be a true DBA.
a) Recommended training/education in
Los Angeles area?
b) Where do you recommend I study & is online
training valuable?
4. If I could learn Oracle software on my own
through Independent study
(books & reference sites), could this be
sufficient enough to go about to
get a job?
>>> OK.
This is where I disagree with everyone. The OCP is valueless
to the
market. It looks good on the resume because almost no
organization
really understands how it is obtained. As one of the
authors for the first
independent Oracle certification, we designed the
certification exam so that
inexperienced Oracle DBAs COULD NOT pass
it. It required Experience!!! The
Oracle OCP only requires
you to take some training, read some books, and
then take the exam.
We as experienced DBAs has proven this time after time
by giving the exam
to people that have never been DBAs in their careers and
have only read
some basic Oracle Concepts material. There are a lot of OCP
DBAs
that still don't understand how to get stuff out of Oracle's
Data
Dictionary or, for that matter, what is a data dictionary. I
see no value
in the OCP except as a training mechanism. When high
school students can
pass the exam without any experience in Oracle, that
should tell you the
value of the exam itself.
If you can learn
portions of the Oracle software on your own, Great!
It will be impossible
to learn all of Oracle on your own as the software is
vast in features
and requires different configurations that you may not have
available to
you. In teams of acquiring a job from learning the software,
you
may be able to get a job working in a team of Oracle DBAs. However,
I
will be the first one here to say that I would not hire you as a stand
alone
DBA with just that type of experience. For small shops,
maybe, but for
enterprises, no way.
a) Is the OCP certification
necessary?
b) If I took this independent study route instead of formal
training
from like a vocational school, would the steps to getting a job
(or even my
OCP certification) be the same? Or would it be more
difficult without
formal training?
Independent study mechanisms are
typically not structured in
learning capabilities. You need a
structured model to properly learn the
ridiculous things in Oracle,
especially with Oracle9i. I would start with
some basic online
training and then move to a semi-formal study program.
From there, either
vocational, self-study or a more formal class would be
beneficial.
5.
What are some valuable books and resources to aid in my
training?
>>> Rachel's DBA 101 book would be an excellent
choice. Some of the
books by O'Riely and Oracle Press would also
help you. Many people have
given excellent suggestions here.
There are so many titles that I would not
beg to know them
offhand.
6. How much does Oracle9i cost & would it be worth
it to get since i
want to learn? Are there evaluation copies out
there that I can get my
hands on?
>>> You can download
Oracle9i from www.oracle.com. In terms of cost, it
varies depending
on the number of CPUs and hardware chosen. You can also
pay for an
Oracle Technology Network membership and receive the CDs
from
Oracle. Understand that Oracle is not a small software
product. The
requirements on your hardware are quite large, so make
sure you have enough
bandwidth in terms of CPU and memory before
investing in it.
7. What are the basic introductory
courses/resources/training I could
do to learn or get started in DBA
training?
8. Basically, please list the steps you took to become a DBA
(starting
with education/training to job entry) and how you sould suggest
I should go
about starting to learn the fundamentals and then more in
depth?
7 & 8 are too generic. I would advise contacting
your own DBA staff and
asking them this question. I always
recommend becoming an Oracle developer
before becoming a DBA. DBAs that
have never developed Oracle-based software
will never understand the
issues related to query optimization, performance
management, etc. as
well as if they had attempted to create an
Oracle-centric
application. In many cases, I have seen Oracle DBAs with
no
development experience really screw up an application
environment.
Hope this helps.
Thank You
Stephen P.
Karniotis
Technical Alliance Manager
Compuware Corporation
Direct:
(248) 865-4350
Mobile: (248) 408-2918
Email:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web:
www.compuware.com
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday,
December 31, 2001 11:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Becoming a DBA questions
1. Depends on the
company/part of the country and the economy.
2. State your experience
with other databases. Once you get Oracle up
and running at home, add
that so they know you have installed it (IMHO
installing on Linux is more
impressive as it is very close to unix, but
doing it under windows is
better than nothing.) Don't say "looking for
entry-level Oracle dba job"
in your mission statement. Say something
like "looking for the
opportunity to move my proven database design and
administration skills
to a new level with Oracle" or something to that
extent.
3. If you are
good at self-study, Oracle has online learning that
appears pretty
reasonable ($99/month or something like that). But get
yourself an
Oracle installation to practice on first.
4. Quite possible to get a job
with self-study and training. Passing
your OCP tests will help you
get that first job. After that it is nice
to put on your biography
when you submit papers to present at the
conferences and user
groups.
6. I'm not in the office today, but I'm sure someone will correct
me on
the title, but the two books I think are great are
a. Oracle 8i
dba from Oracle Press. I think that is the one that has a
great example
of real-life paper to database that explains things very
well.
b. DBA
101 by Rachel Carmichael (and others). I haven't had the chance
to read
it yet, but I've got a friend who is an aspiring dba so I've
looked at it
and he really loves it. And since I'm a big fan of
Rachel's work, I
have to recommend it.
8. Well, I have been working with databases for
many years. But my
first Oracle job was an accident. I was hired
for other skills that I
had and the day I started my new manager said
"the Oracle DBA is
leaving. You've got a lot of database experience on
your resume. Want to
be our Oracle DBA?" The rest is history.
My advice to you is to get
Oracle installed and decide on a project that
you can use and maintain.
I built a contact manager using an Access
front-end. I kept learning
new ways to improve the design and
adding new features. Besides coming
in very handy for job searches,
it gave me something to discuss when
networking and someone would hear
that I worked with databases and ask
what I had worked on recently.
I would also recommend looking up a
local user group (start at
www.ioug.org and click on the User Group
link). Attend and make friends.
These will be your peers and if you're
lucky, you may find someone that
will become your mentor. They may not
be in a position to hire you,
but they (we) are generally connected to
the pulse of the hiring market
and know when someone is looking to
expand or hire a replacement.
They can also help you learn new things
and correct any misconceptions
you have. At the social portion of the
event (most user groups have
conversation time) find someone who has
been a dba for a number of years
and ask them if you can talk to them.
Explain what your understanding of
something is and then pay attention
as they either correct you or add to
your knowledge. Before you know
it, you will be sitting in an
interview and the interviewer will ask you
to explain how to use pctfree
and you will know from your conversations
and testing.
Good
luck.
Stephen Andert
Scottsdale, Arizona
>>>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/31 2:00 AM >>>
> Questions for a Database
Administrator:
1. What is the average salary range for an entry-level DBA
position? Or
a
position for someone who is just starting out as a
DBA?
2. In a job resume, should I request an entry-level
position or would
that
set me up for no phone calls?
3.
What are some steps I should take to becoming a DBA w/
the
background
that I have (ie. generated databases w/ MS
Access)?
a) Recommended training/education in Los Angeles
area?
b) Where do you recommend I study & is online training
valuable?
4. If I could learn Oracle software on my own through
Independent
study
(books & reference sites), could this be
sufficient enough to go about
to get
a job?
a) Is the OCP
certification necessary?
b) If I took this independent study route
instead of formal training
from
like a vocational school, would the
steps to getting a job (or even my
OCP
certification) be the
same? Or would it be more difficult
without
formal
training?
5. What are some valuable books
and resources to aid in my training?
6. How much does
Oracle9i cost & would it be worth it to get since i
want
to
learn? Are there evaluation copies out there that I can get my
hands
on?
7. What are the basic introductory
courses/resources/training I could
do to
learn or get started in DBA
training?
8. Basically, please list the steps you took to
become a DBA (starting
with
education/training to job entry) and how
you sould suggest I should go
about
starting to learn the fundamentals
and then more in depth?
Thank you!! I really appreciate your
help!!
Please, write to me
@
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
thanks!!
smiles & happy new year
2002!!!!
--
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http://www.orafaq.com
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Author: Stephen Andert
INET:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network
Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858)
538-5051
San Diego, California
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Author: Karniotis,
Stephen
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