> if you are a lousy presenter, giving bad information, > you get horrible scores, and...
Unfortunately, there is no reliable correlation between giving bad information and getting horrible scores, at either conference. Some of the best-ranked presentations in Oracle conference history have been some of the most damaging. Cary Millsap Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd. http://www.hotsos.com Upcoming events: - Hotsos Clinic, Jul 9-11 New York City - Hotsos Clinic, Jul 23-25 Chicago - 2003 Hotsos Symposium on OracleR System Performance, Feb 9-12 Dallas -----Original Message----- Ian A. Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'll bet a dynamic animated speaker chockful of amusing anecdotes whose presentation is technically weak scores better than a plodding monotonous one with better information to convey :) Especialy if the audience is composed of nascent DBA's :) Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 5:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L one being a marketing venue, the other being a place where you can learn from ohers experiences. and to clarify further, if you are a lousy presenter, giving bad information, you get horrible scores and, since the selection process is not blind, don't get asked back to present again. So having a list of many presentations, at various conferences, can be an indicator of knowledge. --- "Karniotis, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Let me clarify something. It was at Oracle Open World, not IOUG-A > Live > where these presentations were made. Please do not confuse the two!! > > Thank You > > Stephen P. Karniotis > Product Architect > Compuware Corporation > Direct: (248) 865-4350 > Mobile: (248) 408-2918 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Web: www.compuware.com > > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 5:41 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: the ora certified masters cert, yet again > > A tip o' the hat to all authors and presenters. However writing a > book > makes no one an expert on anything. There are Oracle books > containing > fabulous stories of what happens when a tablespace is put in backup > mode, > and while quite entertaining they do not further a correct > understanding of > Oracle. Authors take the time to put what they believe to be true on > paper. > It's often what they have been told, not what they have learned on > their > own. Richard Niemiec's sp? tuning books have been trashed recently > because > they tout buffer hit ratios; however there was a consensus in the > Oracle > community that these were important. It took Cary Millsap's paper > and a new > tuning paradigm introduced by Gaja Vaidyanatha, Kirtikumar Deshpande, > and > John Kostelac Jr. to direct us to something more useful. Personally, > I was > using wait events before Gaja's book, but I was also trying to keep > the hit > ratio's high as a part of the "consensus". If I had written a book > before > seeing Cary's paper! > ! > , it > would have touted hit ratios. I don't believe "Oracle 101 > Performance > Tuning" is a perfect book; it doesn't properly address data > collection > needs. > > Why would authorship and presentations be worth more than an OCP? > The OCP > says that you have achieved a standard. One can debate whether that > standard has any meaning. There is no standard at all for > authors/presenters. It does seem however that many OCP holders know > far > less than their certificate would indicate, and some authors are more > expert > than their books convey. A good author of Oracle tomes and > presentations > needs a clearer understanding of the subject matter than an OCP. > Good > authors hold themselves to higher standards than needed to be called > an OCP. > I just want to point out that not all authors are good authors, and > that > there are OCP holders who have not written books that are as if not > more > knowlegeable than most authors. There are people who have done > neither who > know as much if not more than both. > > The OCM was introduced for two reasons. Oracle is in business to > make money > and wanted another revenue stream, and the standards one must meet to > become > an OCP were being questioned. Unfortunately at last years IOUG-A > conference the six people who were given their OCM's were touted as > the six > most knowledgeable Oracle experts in th world. The awardees did not > include > Gaja, nor Kirti, nor Anjo Kolk, nor Steve Adams, nor Jonathan Lewis, > nor Guy > Harrison, nor Larry Elkins... Indeed only one person on the awarded > the > OCM would I have placed in any top six list, and that's Paul Dorsey > who is > extremely knowlegeable concerning Oracle's development tools. There > were > some awardees I know nothing about. Despite this over-the-top > rollout, the > OCM under proper care could become a certification with real meaning, > by > that I mean more important than being an author or a presenter > > > Ian MacGregor > Stanford Linear Acclerator Center > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 11:17 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Rachel has really baiting me on this one, as she is well aware of my > position on certifications, especially Oracle's. I watched some of > this > thread start and laughed. > > Vendor-sponsored certifications are no more valuable to the > marketplace than > the software they claim is 100% bug free. This is especially true > when the > vendor "pushes" the certification out to the market for next to > nothing and > then complains that the industry sees no value in it because SOOOOOO > many > people have it. Who's to blame for that. Why do you think Microsoft > reduced the number of organizations that offer MCS* certifications? > There > are TOOOO MANY. Our company offered MCS* certifications, including a > complete training program, as required and it brought NO VALUE. > > Look at companies like Novell, etc. Originally, Novel's > certifications, > CNA, CNE, & CNAE, were offered at a high cost and only the few and > proud had > obtained it. The original certification exams, CSP, CCP, etc. that > were > offered by third-party institutes have also lost their value as > anyone with > a book and time can pass them. It's too bad because certifications > DID mean > something in the 1980s and early 1990s. > > Oracle is crying in its own spoiled milk on this one. They caused > the > problem and now they are trying to fix it by ramming a new program > down our > throats. Think about it folks. You have to pay an additional $ 2000 > for > what? The only reason people will take this ridiculous path is to > achieve a > higher level in the Oracle Partner Program. No More. No less. > > If you really think that having an OCM or OCP or other certification > is > going to make the difference in you getting a job, you have REAL > problems. > As far as Rachel substituting books and presentations for > certifications, I > agree with her. As a personal friend of hers ( I hope still after > this long > email), I also do not have my certification because my experience > shows: > 25+ presentations around the world, recognized industry expert, and > 17+ > years doing the job. > > OK. I'm off the soap box. Get off the certification box now before > it > collapses and Oracle builds another one. You know: If Oracle would > concentrate on building better quality software with the time spent > on this > stupid certification program, all of us would be better off! > > Thank You > > Stephen P. Karniotis > Product Architect > Compuware Corporation > Direct: (248) 865-4350 > Mobile: (248) 408-2918 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Web: www.compuware.com > > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:19 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: Re: the ora certified masters cert, yet again > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: MacGregor, Ian A. INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Cary Millsap INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
