Joe, elephantwalker, et.al.
I was going to do a 'me too!' followed by a listing, but that may not be
list-appropriate (MYOWN_PERSONAL_RULE: if you have the question: Is this
SPAM? ASK THE LIST!)
So, how do we do this, and not offend the users of the list (our budding
community)?
My response to elephantwalker was meant as an impetus for more discussion.
More prods to follow tonite.
Oh, yeah:
ME, TOO!
<heh, heh>
Michael J. Cannon
President
Ubiquicomm
mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Project Manager
hsqldb.org
mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of elephantwalker
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 11:35 AM
> To: Orion-Interest
> Subject: RE: productive comment.
>
>
> Great point. However, we can help expand on the functionality at
> orionsupport. But then there's that *paid* support issue. Companies need a
> place to go so they can *pay* for support when the chips are down, and the
> alligators are crawling around nipping at their tender parts.
>
> The great thing about mysql or borland's open source product is that when
> the chips are down, you can get *paid* support from thousands of
> independent
> consultants. The key bit that will help orion is support that is there for
> the asking...all you have to do is pay for it. If Joe Ottinger is reading
> this email, lets add this bit to your site.
>
> If you need a consultant to belly up to the bar, and help out, contact the
> elephantwalker.
>
> For the orion team at ironflare, I am willing to pay a
> *franchising* fee for
> every support call, email or site visit answered, as long as we get access
> to the dev team for *bugs*.
>
> Regards,
>
> the Elephantwalker
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan North
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 5:28 AM
> To: Orion-Interest
> Subject: RE: productive comment.
> Importance: High
>
>
> I love the enthusiasm, but I'm concerned about the solution. The
> orionsupport.com site is run and maintained by a small group of
> people with
> exactly the same ideas as those being expressed on this list. Let's not
> create splinter groups which start with a huge burst of
> enthusiasm and then
> fizzle out into another resource dead end. Instead, let's focus that
> energy on taking orionsupport to the level it needs to get to next.
>
> It is built on some great open source technology (www.opensymphony.com)
> which would make it a straightforward exercise to add threaded
> discussions,
> article feedback, printer-friendly page views etc. to the articles there.
>
> Joe Ottinger, who currently hosts the site, explains what his
> ideas are for
> orionsupport in his excellent (and conveniently short!) "Into the Future"
> article, which is currently available from google's cache at
> http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.orionsupport.com/articles
> /vision.ht
> ml+&hl=en).
>
> So, some feedback to the site would be a good start (once Joe gets it back
> on-line :o)
> Invitations for mirroring would ensure the availability we need,
> a threaded
> discussion list (which could interact with this list?), client news (you
> know if you've bought a licence - so tell the rest of us), much greater
> breadth and depth of support articles, etc.
>
> The sentiment from many of you on this list is that (a) orion is a
> fantastic product, (b) the orion team don't give their website the
> time/inclination/priority many of us require, (c) between us we possess a
> lot of knowledge, (d) we're happy to share that with the
> community. So, in
> the absence of formal support partners/infrastructure can I suggest that
> everyone gives orionsupport.com the, umm, support it deserves?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan/tastapod
>
>
> At 00:47 13/04/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> >RE: How do we take the next step?
> >
> >A sig is, classically a _S_pecial _I_nterest _G_roup, in the computer
> >culture.
> >
> >orionsig.net, orionsig.org and orionsig.com are available. Pick 'em.
> Don't
> >need a license from anyone to be a 'general purpose special interest
> group,'
> >as long as you don't purport to be in any 'special' circumstance or make
> >unfounded claims or use words that have obvious legal meaning.
> >
> >I've got a fixed IP, but it's on a slow and restricted
> connection. I know
> >an ISP that is easy to work with, charges $39/mo, knows how to
> run services
> >for Java, and is relatively small and responsive, and accesses through a
> >multiple T3 (second-tier backbone access, they're actually a small CLEC).
> >They also are an accredited registrar for all the above TLD's
> (turn-around
> >is typically about 24 hours to propagate through BIND/DNS and the
> internic).
> >I'd be willing to donate the first six months worth of host costs, and,
> >after 30 days, pay for the Orion license myself (gotta run the site on
> >Orion, don't we?) with these guys or anyone better.
> >
> >Let's just DO IT. Anyone else want to help?
> >
> >Michael Cannon
> >mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> elephantwalker
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:28 PM
> > > To: Orion-Interest
> > > Subject: RE: productive comment.
> > >
> > >
> > > List,
> > >
> > > We have an organic community here, but the list has been our only
> output.
> > > The support from the company is lacking. Orionsupport seems
> to have been
> a
> > > good outlet for some, but appears to be down for a spell.
> > >
> > > Many here have used the other commercial packages (I have used
> > > weblogic and
> > > iplanet), but had to suffer through their "seminars" which are just
> > > over-blown sales meetings. If you are a small company, these are just
> not
> > > the products for you.
> > >
> > > It would be nice if we could post "success stories" and "hints"
> > > directly on
> > > the OrionServer web site. If they want to commercialize the
> product, and
> > > don't have the bucks or people to provide support...let *us* provide
> this
> > > service through a "community" process.
> > >
> > > About 18 months ago I started using the netbeans ide. At the time, its
> was
> > > the only jave 2 ide out there. The netbeans news server was well
> > > maintained
> > > by a support engineer for netbeans. Later they sold out to Sun,
> > > and a lot of
> > > that "organic" feeling went away. But the attention that one guy
> > > gave to the
> > > news service was great, and made using the product a good experience.
> > >
> > > If we could move the energy prevalent on the orion-interest
> news service
> > > into a "community" web page, maybe this could help all of us out? We
> could
> > > award *points* to the best answers to questions. We could
> have an ignore
> > > button. And yes, we could have a *paid* consultancy service for email
> > > questions, phone coaching, and even site visits. Many of the
> > > users of orion
> > > are independent consultants, so it is not out of the question that a
> > > community web service for orion wouldn't fill the gap for
> orion support.
> > >
> > > I think one thing missing from the OrionSupport web site was this last
> > > bit....some paid service for support. Its also missing from the
> Ironflare.
> > > If you notice, you can buy the product...but even if you wanted to pay
> for
> > > extra support, they don't sell it.
> > >
> > > If you are reading this at Orion, please consider the McDonald's
> > > model. They
> > > had a good idea for a hamburger, but how do you put a restaurant on
> every
> > > corner? You franchise the hamburger restaurant idea. Why does'nt
> Ironflare
> > > "franchise" the support for Orion? This way they could
> continue to write
> > > great software, but others would pay them to give great support
> > > service for
> > > Orion.
> > >
> > > I have been trying to call these guys for a month now, with
> no success.
> > >
> > > So my question is...
> > >
> > > How do we take the next step?
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > The elephantwalker
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 5:44 PM
> > > To: Orion-Interest
> > > Subject: productive comment.
> > >
> > >
> > > > David, nothing personal, I'm just hanging my reply off yours as
> > > >it's the latest one in this thread...BUT some of us are very
> > > bored of this
> > > thread popping up every few weeks. Sure, Orion hasn't released a
> > > new version
> > > in a couple of months now (I think), and I'm as desperately eager
> > > for 1.4.8
> > > as anyone here. Why does
> > > this always translate to 'Orion is tanking'?
> > >
> > > I know where you are coming from. I love orion. The problem I
> > > have is when
> > > I have to rationalize its use to others. Here's the most basic
> > > recommendation that I think would go a long way (believe it or not)
> > >
> > > UPDATE THE WEB SITE ONCE A WEEK
> > > include simple news...even just a paragraph or to. perhaps explaining
> > > latest updates (in betas). If you have no news....add link to new
> > > clients/web sites...I'm sure ...this would take about 10 minutes
> > > a week and
> > > would go a long way in helping me convince people to buy
> > > it...believe it or
> > > not. I know it has no relevance on the quality of the product,
> > > but it would
> > > make a huge difference in giving the people I work with confidence in
> > > Orion's future. This is necessary because orion is not open
> source and
> we
> > > can not update the orionserver.com site as a community. I know
> > > this is what
> > > orionsupport is for, however, when I have to get people to commit
> > > money to a
> > > product simple things go a long way. I hope this was a more
> productive
> > > comment.
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> --
> Dan North
> VP Development - Cadrion Software Ltd - +44 (0)20 7440 9550
>
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