'access' to the dev team? You mean that if you think its a bug then you
should be able to get on the phone with developers as if they were tech
support people? Whats wrong with Bugzilla and a quick development team?
-----Original Message-----
From: elephantwalker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 9:35 AM
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: RE: productive comment.
Great point. However, we can help expand on the functionality at
orionsupport. But then there's that *paid* support issue. Companies need a
place to go so they can *pay* for support when the chips are down, and the
alligators are crawling around nipping at their tender parts.
The great thing about mysql or borland's open source product is that when
the chips are down, you can get *paid* support from thousands of independent
consultants. The key bit that will help orion is support that is there for
the asking...all you have to do is pay for it. If Joe Ottinger is reading
this email, lets add this bit to your site.
If you need a consultant to belly up to the bar, and help out, contact the
elephantwalker.
For the orion team at ironflare, I am willing to pay a *franchising* fee for
every support call, email or site visit answered, as long as we get access
to the dev team for *bugs*.
Regards,
the Elephantwalker
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan North
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 5:28 AM
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: RE: productive comment.
Importance: High
I love the enthusiasm, but I'm concerned about the solution. The
orionsupport.com site is run and maintained by a small group of people with
exactly the same ideas as those being expressed on this list. Let's not
create splinter groups which start with a huge burst of enthusiasm and then
fizzle out into another resource dead end. Instead, let's focus that
energy on taking orionsupport to the level it needs to get to next.
It is built on some great open source technology (www.opensymphony.com)
which would make it a straightforward exercise to add threaded discussions,
article feedback, printer-friendly page views etc. to the articles there.
Joe Ottinger, who currently hosts the site, explains what his ideas are for
orionsupport in his excellent (and conveniently short!) "Into the Future"
article, which is currently available from google's cache at
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.orionsupport.com/articles/vision.ht
ml+&hl=en).
So, some feedback to the site would be a good start (once Joe gets it back
on-line :o)
Invitations for mirroring would ensure the availability we need, a threaded
discussion list (which could interact with this list?), client news (you
know if you've bought a licence - so tell the rest of us), much greater
breadth and depth of support articles, etc.
The sentiment from many of you on this list is that (a) orion is a
fantastic product, (b) the orion team don't give their website the
time/inclination/priority many of us require, (c) between us we possess a
lot of knowledge, (d) we're happy to share that with the community. So, in
the absence of formal support partners/infrastructure can I suggest that
everyone gives orionsupport.com the, umm, support it deserves?
Thanks,
Dan/tastapod
At 00:47 13/04/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>RE: How do we take the next step?
>
>A sig is, classically a _S_pecial _I_nterest _G_roup, in the computer
>culture.
>
>orionsig.net, orionsig.org and orionsig.com are available. Pick 'em.
Don't
>need a license from anyone to be a 'general purpose special interest
group,'
>as long as you don't purport to be in any 'special' circumstance or make
>unfounded claims or use words that have obvious legal meaning.
>
>I've got a fixed IP, but it's on a slow and restricted connection. I know
>an ISP that is easy to work with, charges $39/mo, knows how to run services
>for Java, and is relatively small and responsive, and accesses through a
>multiple T3 (second-tier backbone access, they're actually a small CLEC).
>They also are an accredited registrar for all the above TLD's (turn-around
>is typically about 24 hours to propagate through BIND/DNS and the
internic).
>I'd be willing to donate the first six months worth of host costs, and,
>after 30 days, pay for the Orion license myself (gotta run the site on
>Orion, don't we?) with these guys or anyone better.
>
>Let's just DO IT. Anyone else want to help?
>
>Michael Cannon
>mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of elephantwalker
> > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:28 PM
> > To: Orion-Interest
> > Subject: RE: productive comment.
> >
> >
> > List,
> >
> > We have an organic community here, but the list has been our only
output.
> > The support from the company is lacking. Orionsupport seems to have been
a
> > good outlet for some, but appears to be down for a spell.
> >
> > Many here have used the other commercial packages (I have used
> > weblogic and
> > iplanet), but had to suffer through their "seminars" which are just
> > over-blown sales meetings. If you are a small company, these are just
not
> > the products for you.
> >
> > It would be nice if we could post "success stories" and "hints"
> > directly on
> > the OrionServer web site. If they want to commercialize the product, and
> > don't have the bucks or people to provide support...let *us* provide
this
> > service through a "community" process.
> >
> > About 18 months ago I started using the netbeans ide. At the time, its
was
> > the only jave 2 ide out there. The netbeans news server was well
> > maintained
> > by a support engineer for netbeans. Later they sold out to Sun,
> > and a lot of
> > that "organic" feeling went away. But the attention that one guy
> > gave to the
> > news service was great, and made using the product a good experience.
> >
> > If we could move the energy prevalent on the orion-interest news service
> > into a "community" web page, maybe this could help all of us out? We
could
> > award *points* to the best answers to questions. We could have an ignore
> > button. And yes, we could have a *paid* consultancy service for email
> > questions, phone coaching, and even site visits. Many of the
> > users of orion
> > are independent consultants, so it is not out of the question that a
> > community web service for orion wouldn't fill the gap for orion support.
> >
> > I think one thing missing from the OrionSupport web site was this last
> > bit....some paid service for support. Its also missing from the
Ironflare.
> > If you notice, you can buy the product...but even if you wanted to pay
for
> > extra support, they don't sell it.
> >
> > If you are reading this at Orion, please consider the McDonald's
> > model. They
> > had a good idea for a hamburger, but how do you put a restaurant on
every
> > corner? You franchise the hamburger restaurant idea. Why does'nt
Ironflare
> > "franchise" the support for Orion? This way they could continue to write
> > great software, but others would pay them to give great support
> > service for
> > Orion.
> >
> > I have been trying to call these guys for a month now, with no success.
> >
> > So my question is...
> >
> > How do we take the next step?
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > The elephantwalker
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 5:44 PM
> > To: Orion-Interest
> > Subject: productive comment.
> >
> >
> > > David, nothing personal, I'm just hanging my reply off yours as
> > >it's the latest one in this thread...BUT some of us are very
> > bored of this
> > thread popping up every few weeks. Sure, Orion hasn't released a
> > new version
> > in a couple of months now (I think), and I'm as desperately eager
> > for 1.4.8
> > as anyone here. Why does
> > this always translate to 'Orion is tanking'?
> >
> > I know where you are coming from. I love orion. The problem I
> > have is when
> > I have to rationalize its use to others. Here's the most basic
> > recommendation that I think would go a long way (believe it or not)
> >
> > UPDATE THE WEB SITE ONCE A WEEK
> > include simple news...even just a paragraph or to. perhaps explaining
> > latest updates (in betas). If you have no news....add link to new
> > clients/web sites...I'm sure ...this would take about 10 minutes
> > a week and
> > would go a long way in helping me convince people to buy
> > it...believe it or
> > not. I know it has no relevance on the quality of the product,
> > but it would
> > make a huge difference in giving the people I work with confidence in
> > Orion's future. This is necessary because orion is not open source and
we
> > can not update the orionserver.com site as a community. I know
> > this is what
> > orionsupport is for, however, when I have to get people to commit
> > money to a
> > product simple things go a long way. I hope this was a more productive
> > comment.
> >
> >
> >
--
Dan North
VP Development - Cadrion Software Ltd - +44 (0)20 7440 9550
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