David,

I understand the limitations of Strongs.  And while I
don't seek to PROVE anything by means of Strongs, I
do use it to EXPLAIN my thoughts and to provide
background of my comments regarding the Hebrew or
Aramaic word in question.

And since I'm not able to read Hebrew or Aramaic, it
can be a useful tool in following the logic of OTHER
contributors to this list.  So I assure you, I will
not expect people to agree with me merely because I
make a reference to Strongs.  But, for the time being,
I will continue to use Strongs as a point of reference
for discussions, until other lexicon and dictionary
definitions are introduced in a relevant way.

Getting back to your discussion, you write about
'irin and 'ir.  And about the meaning of the word
"watcher" in reference to "awake".  And you expressed
your skepticism regarding the possible connection
between Samaritans as Watchers, and between Angels
as Watchers.

And yet I found a perfectly marvelous coincidence
just along those lines!

Using a different site:

5892
 `iyr [ eer ] or (in the plural) par {awr}; or ayar
(Judges 10:4) {aw-yar'};
from '`uwr' (5782) a city
(a place guarded by waking or a watch)

 
5893
 `Iyr [ eer ] the same as '`iyr' (5892);
Ir, an Israelite:--Ir.
 
5894
 `iyr [ eer ]
 (Aramaic) from a root corresponding to '`uwr'
(5782); a watcher, i.e. an angel (as guardian):--watcher.


And what do we see here but another parallel of a
reference to a region and its citizenry (in this case,
Israel), and the term "watcher/guard"... and SPECIFICALLY
angels.  [ In fact, this appears to be the idea behind
even the English phrase "guardian angel"... but I
digress.]

I do believe the connection between "Israel" and
"Watcher" is more than coincidence.  In my last
post I had drawn the parallel between the term
for Samaritan and the term for Watcher.  And now,
yet again, we find a reference to "Israelites"
(which would be consistent with the distinction
between those of Israel vs. Judah), which is
phonetically linked to Watchers... and not just
any Watchers.... but ANGEL watchers.

In the pun-rich "literary world" of the Jewish
thinkers, I do not think this would have gone unnoticed.
And no doubt the linkage between these word meanings
and the idea that angels were "always awake" would have
been very attractive to include too.

The Jewish use of puns can make etiologies very tricky
for sure.  For a word meaning can evolve that is "over-
determined".... in that it has more than one related
meaning, and EACH meaning is equally valid.  If a word
gathers enough puns around it, the original source of
the word can easily become obscured.  The word "essene"
is the textbook example of this.  There are lots of 
credible explanations for where the word came from,
but we struggle at finding THE source for the word because
it appears that the associated "puns" had a vitality and
significance too.

In this case, I'm not as concerned about the etiology
of the word "watcher" or "angel" as I am in its inevitably
expanded use.  And ironically, David, instead of providing
evidence for why the Enochian use of the term "Watcher"
couldn't be a veiled reference to Samaritan
(i.e., non-Judahite), you've actually provided yet another
clue as to how they COULD be related.
 
Let's discuss the possibilities a little more, yes?

George Brooks
Tampa, FL


For private reply, e-mail to George Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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