Oh Diane - thank you! I had been hoping you would write something. I'm
also very grateful for your comprehensive history here only some of
which I was aware of.
A deep bow of appreciation for the Agile Open series. I'd love to go to
every one of those because of the fun, engagement, high level of
learning - but mostly from the awesome people I've met and how it has
enriched my lives. You've been one of the greatest enrichers of my
professional life, Diane! I'm quite excited to be going to Agile Open in
Berkeley next week! And the Portland/Seattle Agile Open Northwest is one
of the high points of my year.
As Harrison said - please ramble more. I've been intrigued and
intimidated by the depth I've seen in the Human System Dynamics work and
would love especially to hear you speak more about the intersection of
OST and HSD - or maybe more appropos to this thread how Finite and
Infinite Games is a formal basis for HSD - and that might benefit OST
facilitation.
Thanks!
Harold
On 10/9/13 3:21 PM, Diana Larsen wrote:
Harold, Michael, Harrison, and all,
I've been lurking on the sidelines of this conversation. Honestly,
hoping a bit that it would go away. (Not sure about my motivations
there.) However, the turn the thread has taken recently prompts me to
speak up again.
I'd like to remind you about the Agile Open series of conferences
(goes back to Europe in 2004 and still continuing) and the Agile Open
Program supported by the Agile Alliance (since 2010) and before those
the open space formats of Consultants' Camp (started by Jerry Weinberg
decades ago), the Consultants' Retreats (Norm Kerth begun in 1997),
and Retrospective Faciltators' Gatherings (Norm, Esther Derby, Linda
Rising, and me, 2002), all still continuing and having touched many
people in the Agile community over the years. What is now the Agile
20xx conferences have had an open space/open jam component since the
beginning. As well as John Engle's, Harrison's, & Suzanne's
involvement with a variety of Agile conferences. Coming to a Scrum
Gathering in Boulder straight from having attended the US-OS on OS in
San Antonio TX in 2005(?), I opened the first open space for Scrum
(that I know of). Michael opened space at the XP/Agile Universe
conference ten years ago and showed everyone there what
self-organizing could look like in the moment. (I was there, thank you
Michael.)
All of which has made fertile ground for Dan's advocacy to take hold
in the Agile community. We all stand on the shoulders of giants. Dan
may be the most vocal advocate at the moment (and I applaud his
visibility), but I wouldn't say he's the most potent advocate. Agile
and Open Space have a long, rich and entwined history together.
Some of us have been quietly applying Open Space principles in our
Agile adoption work for many years. We haven't codified it or named
it, but it's been a central part of what we do. Charlie Poole and
others have opened space in organizations as a way of introducing,
modeling, and applying Agile and self-organization.
The theoretical basis of Carse's _Finite and Infinite Games_ underlies
much of the thinking in Human Systems Dynamics as well. The idea that
the degree to which a system is open or closed, multi-dimensional or
single dimensional, non-linear or linear gives us clues about the
patterns that may fit the purpose or not, and whether we'd like to
shift those patterns or not. Alistair Cockburn used Carse's model to
think about competitive and cooperative games, and proposed the idea
that software development would do well to think more in terms of
cooperation among stakeholders. It's one of the reasons I was drawn
into the Agile space.
Some in the Agile community have embraced this idea of games as
metaphor, games/play as learning tool, but they often do not
incorporate (are not aware of?) the deeper meanings from Carse and
Cockburn and the complexity sciences. They do it because it's more
fun. And that's okay too.
It may or may not be a metaphor, explanation or tool that works for
the Open Space community.
Gratitude for your patience with my rambling,
Diana
**************
Diana Larsen
http://futureworksconsulting.com
Envisioning a world where everyone at every level of the organization
can say, "I love my work; this is the best job EVER!"
Read the books:
/Agile Retrospectives: Making Good Teams Great /
/Liftoff: Launching Agile Teams and Projects /
/QuickStart Guide to Five Rules of Accelerated Learning
https://leanpub.com/fiverules/
********************
On Oct 9, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Harold Shinsato wrote:
Hi Michael,
No fun to hear I'm failing - but it hasn't stopped me before. Try and
try again (even if it takes years).
I'm not saying OST *is* a game. I'm not saying OST is anything.
What I see is that there is value in the metaphor of OST as a game.
So Dan is already speaking about OST as a game to Agile circles and
making some good cheese with it. And maybe the Agile community has a
bit of a leg up on us here because Alistair Cockburn used the game
metaphor in his first book in the 1990's about this. And Alistair is
one of the signatories of the Agile Manifesto that started the whole
"Agile" (with capital letter) conversation. But Alistair wasn't
talking specifically about software as in an obscure coding thing
thing that will make everyone's eyes glaze over. He was speaking
about a different way to look at work and at teams.
So I've been in the Agile conversation for over a decade. And it's
not always been fun. Much of it has been butting up against minds
that were very shut, and it's still not an uncommon experience for
advocates to run into a wall. And maybe this might not seem relevant
here, but much of that "Agile" conversation has been about people.
People people people. It's even a frequent complaint I hear for the
techies, because a minority who show up at conferences are only
interested in the coding aspect. But they're the minority. The first
line of the Agile Manifesto <http://agilemanifesto.org/> -
"Individuals and interactions over processes and tools."
Yes - I do live in that world of code. But I also live in this world
of Open Space, improving human dynamics in teams, OD type stuff etc.
And often times having a foot in both worlds causes cognitive
dissonance because not too many are comfortable in this lonely
between space. Finding language to bring together the contasting
perspectives can be difficult.
But living in both worlds - I see so much in common. I see so much
common ground. I see so many ways that the Agile crowd can help the
OST/OD crowd, and most certainly visa versa.
The thing is - the Agile universe is already embracing Open Space in
a huge way. And not always with the direct help and support and
understanding of the folks here. Which is not always a good thing.
One last thing - the Agile community is not homogeneous. There are
many innovations that cause controversy and big huge disruptions. I'm
seeing some of Dan's work in this community as being potentially
hugely powerful and disrupting - and in a large way due to his being
the most potent advocate of Open Space in Agile today. And this game
perspective is part of how he got there.
I'm not fully there and understanding his metaphor of OST as a game -
and it looks like I'll need to converse with him outside this forum
to fully get it. I guess I was hoping for a warmer reception from the
voices of authority and seniority on this list. But at least, having
attended WOSonOS in Florida and knowing some of what is happening in
the Open Space world because of being part of the Open Space
Institute/U.S. - I do know that many of us are catching more of the
agile mojo and that it will continue to mature.
Well, anyway - not sure I just helped you Michael but thanks for
giving me an excuse to rant. :-)
Cheers,
Harold
On 10/9/13 11:58 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
Not sure you actually accomlished "Against," Harold. I think I just
read OST is life, a finite slice of Life.
And if the conversation happens in a room full of people who think
and talk about games, that's great to say OST is a game cuz everyone
in that room or community knows what that means. Probably doesn't
work as well on CNN or at an ODN mtg.
I guess it still a bit confusing to me if this conversation is about
how to talk OST in agile community or how to talk OST in
other/larger communities. Translation is always possible, but the
game lingo doesn't seem native to the folks I'm usually talking
with. Actually, finding some native understanding of (and native
language for) OS seems like half the game in many instances.
m
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013, Harold Shinsato wrote:
Harrison,
Ok, I'll take your word from previous posts that I won't be in
trouble if I risk going up against you again - or maybe it's
just a hope that this thread won't be shut down due to
misunderstandings.
The statement "OST is a game" actually doesn't work for me so
much because it uncomfortably reduces all the ideas and
philosophy (and practice) of OST into a word that unfortunately
has for many negative connotations. But perhaps I'll invite
thinking about OST *as* a game instead. Perhaps that can help
prevent cognitive dissonance and allow for this conversation to
continue.
My understanding of the word game as used by Daniel Mezick and
others comes from game theory - and could open up many benefits.
The briefest way I think to hope to keep this particular door
open for those in this community who might find the word game
unpleasant would be to suggest the book "Finite and Infinite
Games: A Vision of Life as Play and Possibility" by James P.
Carse. Mr. Carse actually is a professor of history and
literature of religion - and his thinking in that book is very
poetic and beautiful. And it reminds me much of Open Space
thinking - and I won't even attempt to dive into his thesis any
more than to look at what I think sums up the thinking being the
final sentence in the book. "There is only one infinite game."
The bigger game of Open Space is the game of life - the unending
story - the "one infinite game". And an OST meeting or
conference is a finite game which seems to open up an experience
of the infinite game in a beautiful way. And yet, there's still
value in seeing the finite game aspects of OST in that context.
Alas, perhaps this attempt will be futile. But I hold out hope
that others won't be discouraged from this perspective on OST as
a game and it's benefits.
Harold
On 10/7/13 1:25 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:
Dan -- Using the word, "game" as you do, I guess it sort of
works with OS, but I do confess a certain feeling of cognitive
dissonance, which I suspect may be shared by some of my
colleagues. In any event, it certainly would not be a word I
would use. But that doesn't mean a great deal. However, when
you say, "Leaders choose to play OST. Or not," I do feel called
upon to say something like... Oh Yes?
Some people refer to the "Game of Life," but it is scarcely a
game you choose to play (or not). Not playing is called
suicide, I think, and while some people do make that choice it
is not a choice that most folks would considered good, useful,
or positive. It is more like canceling all choices. Out of the
Game, so to speak.
I feel rather the same way about OS, and for all the same
reasons. OS for me is not a process we choose to do or not do
-- quite simply it is what we are -- Self organizing, and OS
is only an invitation to be ourselves fully and purposefully.
We can chose to be ourselves with distinction, despair, or
something in between -- but so long as we remain on the planet
in some viable form, we got no choice. We are what we are, what
we are. Put a little differently, OS is not something new and
different, it is just a small name change for what has been
around for quite a while: life. I guess you can call it a
game, but somehow that seems to miss some of the nuances.
Harrison
--
Harold Shinsato
har...@shinsato.com
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http://shinsato.com <http://shinsato.com/>
twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>
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Michael Herman
MichaelHerman.com <http://MichaelHerman.com>
(312) 280-7838
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