Hi Michael,
No fun to hear I'm failing - but it hasn't stopped me before. Try and
try again (even if it takes years).
I'm not saying OST *is* a game. I'm not saying OST is anything.
What I see is that there is value in the metaphor of OST as a game.
So Dan is already speaking about OST as a game to Agile circles and
making some good cheese with it. And maybe the Agile community has a bit
of a leg up on us here because Alistair Cockburn used the game metaphor
in his first book in the 1990's about this. And Alistair is one of the
signatories of the Agile Manifesto that started the whole "Agile" (with
capital letter) conversation. But Alistair wasn't talking specifically
about software as in an obscure coding thing thing that will make
everyone's eyes glaze over. He was speaking about a different way to
look at work and at teams.
So I've been in the Agile conversation for over a decade. And it's not
always been fun. Much of it has been butting up against minds that were
very shut, and it's still not an uncommon experience for advocates to
run into a wall. And maybe this might not seem relevant here, but much
of that "Agile" conversation has been about people. People people
people. It's even a frequent complaint I hear for the techies, because a
minority who show up at conferences are only interested in the coding
aspect. But they're the minority. The first line of the Agile Manifesto
<http://agilemanifesto.org/> - "Individuals and interactions over
processes and tools."
Yes - I do live in that world of code. But I also live in this world of
Open Space, improving human dynamics in teams, OD type stuff etc. And
often times having a foot in both worlds causes cognitive dissonance
because not too many are comfortable in this lonely between space.
Finding language to bring together the contasting perspectives can be
difficult.
But living in both worlds - I see so much in common. I see so much
common ground. I see so many ways that the Agile crowd can help the
OST/OD crowd, and most certainly visa versa.
The thing is - the Agile universe is already embracing Open Space in a
huge way. And not always with the direct help and support and
understanding of the folks here. Which is not always a good thing.
One last thing - the Agile community is not homogeneous. There are many
innovations that cause controversy and big huge disruptions. I'm seeing
some of Dan's work in this community as being potentially hugely
powerful and disrupting - and in a large way due to his being the most
potent advocate of Open Space in Agile today. And this game perspective
is part of how he got there.
I'm not fully there and understanding his metaphor of OST as a game -
and it looks like I'll need to converse with him outside this forum to
fully get it. I guess I was hoping for a warmer reception from the
voices of authority and seniority on this list. But at least, having
attended WOSonOS in Florida and knowing some of what is happening in the
Open Space world because of being part of the Open Space Institute/U.S.
- I do know that many of us are catching more of the agile mojo and that
it will continue to mature.
Well, anyway - not sure I just helped you Michael but thanks for giving
me an excuse to rant. :-)
Cheers,
Harold
On 10/9/13 11:58 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
Not sure you actually accomlished "Against," Harold. I think I just
read OST is life, a finite slice of Life.
And if the conversation happens in a room full of people who think and
talk about games, that's great to say OST is a game cuz everyone in
that room or community knows what that means. Probably doesn't work as
well on CNN or at an ODN mtg.
I guess it still a bit confusing to me if this conversation is about
how to talk OST in agile community or how to talk OST in other/larger
communities. Translation is always possible, but the game lingo
doesn't seem native to the folks I'm usually talking with. Actually,
finding some native understanding of (and native language for) OS
seems like half the game in many instances.
m
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013, Harold Shinsato wrote:
Harrison,
Ok, I'll take your word from previous posts that I won't be in
trouble if I risk going up against you again - or maybe it's just
a hope that this thread won't be shut down due to misunderstandings.
The statement "OST is a game" actually doesn't work for me so much
because it uncomfortably reduces all the ideas and philosophy (and
practice) of OST into a word that unfortunately has for many
negative connotations. But perhaps I'll invite thinking about OST
*as* a game instead. Perhaps that can help prevent cognitive
dissonance and allow for this conversation to continue.
My understanding of the word game as used by Daniel Mezick and
others comes from game theory - and could open up many benefits.
The briefest way I think to hope to keep this particular door open
for those in this community who might find the word game
unpleasant would be to suggest the book "Finite and Infinite
Games: A Vision of Life as Play and Possibility" by James P.
Carse. Mr. Carse actually is a professor of history and literature
of religion - and his thinking in that book is very poetic and
beautiful. And it reminds me much of Open Space thinking - and I
won't even attempt to dive into his thesis any more than to look
at what I think sums up the thinking being the final sentence in
the book. "There is only one infinite game."
The bigger game of Open Space is the game of life - the unending
story - the "one infinite game". And an OST meeting or conference
is a finite game which seems to open up an experience of the
infinite game in a beautiful way. And yet, there's still value in
seeing the finite game aspects of OST in that context.
Alas, perhaps this attempt will be futile. But I hold out hope
that others won't be discouraged from this perspective on OST as a
game and it's benefits.
Harold
On 10/7/13 1:25 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:
Dan -- Using the word, "game" as you do, I guess it sort of works
with OS, but I do confess a certain feeling of cognitive
dissonance, which I suspect may be shared by some of my
colleagues. In any event, it certainly would not be a word I
would use. But that doesn't mean a great deal. However, when you
say, "Leaders choose to play OST. Or not," I do feel called upon
to say something like... Oh Yes?
Some people refer to the "Game of Life," but it is scarcely a
game you choose to play (or not). Not playing is called suicide,
I think, and while some people do make that choice it is not a
choice that most folks would considered good, useful, or
positive. It is more like canceling all choices. Out of the Game,
so to speak.
I feel rather the same way about OS, and for all the same
reasons. OS for me is not a process we choose to do or not do --
quite simply it is what we are -- Self organizing, and OS is
only an invitation to be ourselves fully and purposefully. We can
chose to be ourselves with distinction, despair, or something in
between -- but so long as we remain on the planet in some viable
form, we got no choice. We are what we are, what we are. Put a
little differently, OS is not something new and different, it is
just a small name change for what has been around for quite a
while: life. I guess you can call it a game, but somehow that
seems to miss some of the nuances.
Harrison
--
Harold Shinsato
har...@shinsato.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'har...@shinsato.com');>
http://shinsato.com
twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>
--
Michael Herman
MichaelHerman.com
(312) 280-7838
Sent from my iPhone
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