Hi Kaliya,
Welcome to the OS list! It is indeed a very supportive community.
This seems to be my time of visiting the archives. Below are some responses
to the multiple languages question from 1998, 2000 and 2001. BTW, there are
LOTS of messages. I've copied in seven. If you want more, the archives are
online (link at the bottom of the message).
I would add something on my own experiences but it seems well covered in
what's below.
Peggy
----- Original Message -----
From: Peg Holman
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 2:48 PM
Subject: Fw: Multi-Language Open space
Thought you might enjoy Harrison's response to the multi-language
question.
Peg
-----Original Message-----
From: owen <[email protected]>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Cc: Holman, Peggy <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 11:13 AM
Subject: Multi-Language Open space
Peg Holamn forwared your question about language. I once did an open space
with 17 different languages, no simultaneous tranlation and no problems.
Secret is what i call "The International Bar Approach" At any good bar, if
you want to talk to someone, someone else is surely about who can translate.
So in Open Space the conveners of a session write the title of that session
in the language they propose to operate in. They then provide a translation
in some other "basic" language (English or French will usually work). So
when a person goes to the wall to make a choice, they know what language
will be spoken, and if that is not a comfortable language for them they will
have to bring a "language buddy." I find that language buddies build
community... so rather than being a bother, they actually add to the whole
affair. One thing not to do is make any effort to provide simultaneous
translation in the groups. Total waste of time, and it is much too slow. I
would even wonder about translantion in the opening session. After all this
is not rocket science. I once did an ost in latin america... we had minimal
translation and no problem. The whole thing is so intuitive, once it starts
everybody pretty much knows what to do. Relax... it works. h.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Copleman" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: languages
Regarding opening the space in different languages...
I have done this twice, once in Spanish, and another time in both Kurdish
and Arabic. I speak only English, so I had to have help.
Everything I said was translated into the other languages as I spoke, and
this worked just fine. I made a point of doing things as I spoke:
1. I used none of the little metaphors, analogies, jokes, or idiomatic
remarks I normally employ with American groups.
2. I broke up my presentation into small pieces, letting the translator
deal with only one or two sentences at a time, or even just a simple
phrase,
such as "Principle number one." etc.
I think it's also important to keep in mind that the meetings we
facilitate
have specific purposes (such as coordinating volunteer efforts). These
purposes are the reason our clients hire us, not to demonstrate that
self-organization works. Self-organization, by definition, happens, even
when we inadvertently get in its way. I don't think we could be the
guardians of such a process even if we knew all about it. Even during
break-out sessions, have all the translators you want.
--
Ralph Copleman
****************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Peterson" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: languages
I think Ralph's advice is right on from my experience. With two official
languages in Canada, and a big infrastructure for simultaneous translation
it is often a requirement to have it during plenary events (for political
as
well as other reasons). Diane Gibeault is the expert on this and is in
Spain at the moment, but I have done it quite a few times in
French-English-Signing, Inuktutuk-English-French, Cree-French-English,
etc.
It is ok to have simultaneous translation happening while opening and
closing the space. Pacing is important and preparing the translators so
that they know they key phases -- like the principles and law -- in the
languages being spoken. Otherwise they can come out quite strange.
In some settings we have had individual translators to work with folks
with
particular languages. Signers for the hearing impaired followed them
throughout the event and spoke if necessary for them. In breakout
sessions,
groups have often not provided translators unless requested and let the
participants translate for each other. You need to allow more time for
the
conversations but it works.
Materials for reporting need to be in all languages being used, but
computers that have the right character sets. Getting laptops in a local
dialect of Inuktutuk just seemed to happen.
Getting the reports prepared in all languages has been required by some of
my sponsors. That has been onerous as it is costly here in Canada and
professional translators do not choose to work overnight. I have done
convergence with reports in the language of the group putting it up, but
it
takes some report back in plenary and that can kill energy. So a creative
way to do it is important. If your sponsor can turn around the report
overnight in three languages before convergence -- go for it.
Larry
Larry Peterson
Associates in Transformation
***************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joelle Lyons Everett" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: languages
Jo--
I just finished a week which included a full day of Appreciative Inquiry
and
three half-days in Open Space with a group which included eight women from
Siberia, the American project director, and three American facilitators.
Only the Siberian project director spoke both Russian and English.
During the AI, we had people work in same-language dyads, then we formed 2
groups, one working in Russian only and one which included the Siberian
director, 2 Americans and 3 other Siberians. It was slow to have to
translate all the discussion in the mixed group, but interesting and
moving.
At one point each group planned and presented skits, with a brief summary
translated at the end.
During the OS, the women were discussing ways to implement ideas they had
seen during their 3-week trip, so they worked in Russian without
translation--it was fun to watch the animated discussions. Convenors
hand-wrote a brief report in Russian on a prepared Russian-language form
and
these were posted. At the end, each convenor made a brief verbal report
in
Russian to the whole group and these were translated by the interpreter.
I
scribbled notes like crazy and am preparing a report in English. We were
really glad to have at least a summary of the work available to everyone.
I
could have done it onsite if I had had my computer.
My take on your question is to have an interpreter available to anyone who
asks for translation, and to help with the reporting process. The OS
piece
is that there is no need to translate all conversations and sessions while
they are happening, only as needed. The interpreters need to make
themselves
available for one-on-one conversations as well as mixed-language sessions.
This was not always possible on our project, and I felt a sense of loss at
not getting to know participants in a more personal way.
Best of luck on your ambitious and important project!
Joelle Everett
[email protected]
*
***********************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jo Toepfer" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:57 PM
Subject: languages
Dear colleagues,
the 1.5 days OS with the diverse group of 20 people from 7 European
countries on "How can we co-ordinate our trans-European volunteer
programme" is over now. Our general approach to the languages issue was,
that we defined English as the first and major language, but we organized
some supporting measures:
- open the space and walking the circle in two languages (English [me] and
Russian [Rayk])
- having one professional interpreter around all the time
- name badges with the languages marked on (one is able to speak)
- reading the reports not in the circle but in small groups for
translating
- all plenary sequences (evening news, morning news, convergence etc.) in
two languages
It worked out fine! The group posted 14 issues, 9 reports were produced
(all in English!) and in the convergence a detailed plan for the network
building and a volunteer event in St.Petersburg (Russia) was made. The
level of self-organization was quite high and the participants managed to
find their way through it.
Thank you for all your suggestions and comments. It helped very much to
design the OS. And many thanks to the facilitation-team (Irmi and Rayk) -
it was fun to work with you!
best regards
Jo
--
Jo Toepfer
**************************
----- Original Message -----
From: Harrison Owen
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: Opening Space "in house"
2. I am curious about OS in multiple languages. I want to introduce this
in many areas of our company, most of whom are Chinese. We also have
offices in Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong, and would like to offer a OS for
people from all areas. I would love to hear stories of multi-language OS.
******************************************
Multiple languages in Open Space is no problem. But it goes a lot easier if
there is at least one common language for most of the people. The way I work
it is that participants are invited to post their issues in the language
they intend to use for the session, and then provide a translation of the
topic in the "common language." So if the session is going to take place in
Japanese, and I don't speak that -- I need to find a partner who speaks
Japanese and will attend the session with me. This sounds like a hassle, but
it is really not. And the search for partners actually accelerates the group
bonding process. People who ask for help from other people are sometimes
disappointed, but usually they find a new friend. Actually the process is
identical with what happens at any good international bar. If I want to talk
to somebody with whom there is no shared language, usually there is somebody
else in the bar who can help. And the next thing you know total strangers
are in conversation. I once had a group of 150 with 27 languages, from 17
countries. Worked perfect.
*******
AND THIS EXCHANGE:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Erich Kolenaty" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 4:32 AM
Subject: Languages (bilingual)
Ich danke dir Lisa und auch den anderen,
und stimme euch natürlich zu: nicht nur die professionellen Dinge sind
manchmal schwer auszudrücken. Das trifft auch für alle Herzenssachen und
die
Landkarten über die Welt zu. Das ist auch in der eigenen Sprache nicht so
leicht.
Aber: Wenn wir dabei sind eine globale Welt zu werden und wenn wir dabei
sind eine globale OS-Gemeinschaft zu werden, dann müssen wir auf die Dauer
die Herausforderung bewältigen, einen tiefen Austausch über die Grenzen
der
Sprachen hinweg zu organisieren. Wie immer das funktionieren kann.
Ich habe den OSonOS sehr hilfreich für die Grenzüberschreitung gefunden.
Ein
Beispiel: Ich habe mich einer Gruppe angeschlossen, die am Sonntag abend
Berlin besucht hat. Wir waren auch Leute, aus 7 Ländern, mit 5
unterschiedlichen Sprachen. Gesprochen haben wir meistens englisch und
manchmal deutsch. Internationale Treffen unserer Gemsichaft
sind sehr wertvoll, sie geben mir einen Eindruck, wer andere leute sind,
wie
sie klingen, wie sie aussehen und das ist eine wunderbare Hilfe um
zwischen
die Zeilen zu spüren, die ich jeden Tag am OS Listserv lese.
Übrigens: im Gebiet der EU-15 sind 49 Sprachen im Gebrauch und es gibt nur
ein einziges einsprachiges Land (Portugal).
So könnte man eigentlich erwarten, dass die Europäere Erfahrung im Umgang
damit haben. Aber wir sind weit von dem Punkt der Fähigkeit des
Austausches
als Menschen entfernt, an dem wir sein sollten und wollen.
Aber vieleicht ist das ein wichtiger Beitrag, den die Leute aus Europa
inOS-International leisten können (den manche Menschen wie John als
Menschen
bereits jetzt einbringen): Das Bewußtsein, dass multi-nationaler Austausch
keine natürliche Sache ist, sondern persönliche Anstrengung und
Achtsamkeit
der Gemeinschaft als Ganzes braucht. Der Preis der uns winkt, ist der
Reichtum der geteilten Vielfalt. Und das ist gelebte OS-Philosophie.
liebe Grüße aus Wien
Erich
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I want to thank you Lisa and all the others,
I ofcourse agree with you that not only the professional stuff sometimes
is
hard to express. This is also true for all things of the heart, the spirit
and sharing how one sees the world. This is already not that easy in your
own language.
But:
If this is going to be a global world and if this is going to be a global
OS
community, in the long distance run we have to deal with the challenge to
organize deep sharings across the borders of language. How ever that may
work.
I found the OSonOS very helpful for crossing borders. For example: I
joined
to a party who went to Berlin on sunday evening and we were 8 folks from
7
countries with 5 languages. And talked - mostly english and sometimes
german.
International meetings of our community gain great value, they give me an
impression who other people are, how they sound and shape and this is a
wonderful aid to feel behind the lines I read on the OS-listserve every
day.
By the way: In the area of the European Union (15 countries) are 49
languages in use and there is only one monolingual country (Portugal). So
somebody could expect that we europeans are very experienced to deal with
that. But we are far apart from the point of ability to exchange as human
beings we wanted and needed to be.
May be this is an important contribution folks from europe can bring into
OS-International (what some people like John bring in as individuals right
now): the consciousness that multi-national-sharing is not a natural
thing,
but needs personal efforts and awareness of the community as a whole.
The win we can reach is the richness of the sharing of diversity. And this
is pure OS-philosophy.
greetings from Vienna
Erich
I feel the hardest thing to do is to participate in a way
you feel expresses things exactly and perfectly, especially
when those things are things of the heart, the spirit, and
sharing how one sees the world. And indeed, professional
and perfect translation is also a big challenge.
It takes a lot of courage and a lot of faith (in others and
in one's self) to participate as fully as possible in a
discussion in a different language.
You are amazing.
Warm greetings to you from Berkeley, California, USA,
Lisa
- - - -
> Erich Kolenaty wrote:
> >
> > May be a translation is helpful:
> >
> > Yes, it is an extra challenge to think, understand and write in
another
> > language. Especially, when it is not small talk.
> > Professional questions and answers always need precise descriptions
and
> > wordings. This is not always easiliy to go
> > for me in english and sometimes has been a bar to participate in
discussion.
> > But I am learning continouisly, thats the good news.
> >
> > And it makes me feel good, when sometimes somebody notices and
appreciates
> > that people from other languages have to take a little hurdle to be
there.
> > (this might be one of the reasons why so few folks e.g. from south of
europe
> > are on the list)
> >
> > thank you and greetings to everybody from Vienna
> > Erich
*
*
**************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kaliya Hamlin" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 4:18 AM
Subject: [OSLIST] Mutli-LIngual and non-primary Language Open space
Hi Open Space LIst,
I finally have joined. At Nexus for change many open space practitioners
were talking about how wonderfully supportive this list was of their
practice and a real community.
Part of the reason I joined is that I have a question that was not
answerable easily by searching the web. I would like to know about
expereinces and learning about open space where multiple Languages are
used and perhaps more importantly where many of the participants don't
have the primary language the Open Space is being run in don't have it as
their first language.
I have brought Open Space into the stodgy standards world of the
International Telecommunications Union's Focus Group on Identity
Management. Although we have used it at one of the meetings there are
those who remain unconvinced of its potential and who are insisting that
it "doesn't work" for non-english as a first language speakers. They are
apparently suggesting that when we have our meeting in Japan that the Open
Space be run in Japaness to prove to me that it doesn't work for these
people. (Like sitting in a room for 8 hours a day reviewing english
written Microsoft Word documents projected on the front wall 'works' to
deal successfully with the complex world of telecommunications standards
and regulations world wide.)
What I would like to know from people is how do you create a supportive
space for groups where many of the participants don't have english as a
primary language?
What are the guildelines/suggestions to put forward to both the first
language speakers?
What are the guidlelines/suggesitons put forward to the as a second (or
third..) language participatnts.
Any other advise you have about this would be welcome.
Regards,
=Kaliay
*
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