Harold,

Thanks for bringing your knowledgable and eloquent perspective.  

Great to see these two communities working through an understanding of each 
other.  With you and others as translators, I think Agile is in good hands.

Peggy



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On Sep 23, 2013, at 7:53 AM, Harold Shinsato <[email protected]> wrote:

> Harrison,
> 
> About your statement "Open Space is a terrible way to introduce some new 
> process, and especially to assure 'buy in'".
> 
> You're clearing going directly against the heart of what Dan is trying to 
> promote. Maybe I invite disaster for myself by speaking an alternative view 
> from what you are saying given your founding status of this community - but 
> perhaps given my 12+ years working in the Agile space - I have something 
> worthwhile to say.
> 
> Harrison, you've been opposed to calling "Open Space" a tool. And I hear Lisa 
> Heft (the best Open Space trainer) talking about it being a tool all the time.
> 
> I agree with both of you. Open Space is most emphatically *not* a tool at 
> it's heart. It's a set of values and principles. But it is also definitely a 
> tool. Or as Dan says, a 'game'. A beautifully designed game.
> 
> Agile is most DEFINITELY not a process. It's a set of values and principles. 
> You can see this in the Agile Manifesto - especially the first item, we value 
> Individuals and Interactions *over* Processes and Tools. Yes, the Agile 
> community applies many very specific tools and processes. And very heated 
> debates happen around the application (or misapplication) of those tools and 
> processes, such as Scrum.
> 
> But oddly - even Scrum isn't *Really* a tool or a process. At the heart of 
> Scrum is also a set of principles and values. If you want to get a sense of 
> this - go to the end of the first book on Scrum, by Schwaber & Beedle "Agile 
> Software Development with Scrum" - where it lists the 5 values of Scrum - 
> Commitment, Focus, Openness, Respect & Courage. Or read Tobias Meyer's "The 
> People's Scrum". Very powerful assertion and meditation on the core values 
> and how to apply the processes to get 
> 
> Open Space has already been used with great success to introduce, promote and 
> sustain Agile in the world through many uses of Open Space in conferences 
> such as the AgileOpen, Coaching Camps, and Open Agile Adoption such as what 
> Dan Mezick is explaining. From my vantage point, Open Space is critical for 
> helping the values and principles to be successfully absorbed.
> 
> From my vantage point - Open Space Technology's values and principles are 
> eternal and aren't going away. The Universe won't suddenly stop 
> self-organizing. If anything, we'll only get better at understanding and 
> dancing with Order and Chaos. This dance, with the help of Open Space 
> Technology the Game (or Tool) has changed my life and infused it with spirit. 
> I'm eternally grateful to you, Harrison, to Lisa Heft, and to and this 
> community. And maybe Open Space Technology the game or tool will pass away. 
> The same goes for Agile values and principles. They're eternal. They're not 
> going away. The Process will never be more important than the Individuals. 
> The People are always more important than the Game.
> 
> BUT - there are powerful forces behind trying to adopt agile as merely a tool 
> or a process, because it's easier to understand. And that invites failure - 
> and it's the exact kind of failure you're writing about, Harrison, about how 
> our creations are "inevitably clunky." To succeed, any implementation of 
> Agile or Scrum needs to be able to self-organize - "Inspect and Adapt" is one 
> of the anthems of the agile and scrum communities. I hope that the Open Space 
> community will step up and help the Agile community to do that.
> 
>     Thanks,
>     Harold
> 
> 
> On 9/22/13 10:45 AM, Harrison Owen wrote:
>> Dan wrote: “I've learned that there are actually more ways to fail with Open 
>> Space in Agile adoptions than there are ways to succeed. There are many ways 
>> to stumble when trying this.”
>>  
>> Actually, Dan – I am not at all surprised. I learned a long time ago that 
>> Open Space is a terrible way to introduce some new process, and especially 
>> to assure “buy in.” Typically, problems arise because folks take Open Space 
>> seriously. Instead of buying into the proposed process, they begin to invent 
>> their own! Somewhere I wrote that OS was a great way to design a new 
>> accounting system, but a horrible way to “implement” it.
>>  
>> And just to be contrarian... I wonder whether the failure is a function of 
>> Open Space or Agile (and/or the SCRUM flavor of Agile)? As I think we have 
>> come to understand, Open Space is a total scam if people mistake it for some 
>> process we invented or “do.” It is simply an invitation to be what we always 
>> have been – self organizing. The process itself (SO) has been around for 
>> some time, and apparently has done quite well, witness the fact that we, 
>> along with all the rest of the Cosmos are here and seemingly functional. In 
>> a “face off” between a well functioning self-organizing system and any 
>> process we might have designed to create the system, install the system, or 
>> enhance the system – the designed process doesn’t have a chance. The reason 
>> is simple. No matter how wise, careful, diligent or skillful we may be – our 
>> creation is inevitably clunky. We may get the big blocks right, even some of 
>> the finer points, but at the end of the day we always miss the nuances – and 
>> as always, the devil is in the details. Put somewhat differently, our 
>> designed processes are always “averages” of what we think the process should 
>> look like. And “averages” do not exist anywhere in nature. To push an 
>> “average” on a natural system is always to make it function at some 
>> sub-optimal level, and usually to kill it.
>>  
>> So maybe the order of precedence should go the other way? Use Agile to 
>> introduce Open Space, and then abolish Agile. Or, if you like ... 
>> Self-Organization is the natural agility. It doesn’t get any better than 
>> that. Or something
>>  
>> Harrison
>>  
>>  
>> Harrison Owen
>> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>> Potomac, MD 20854
>> USA
>>  
>> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
>> Camden, Maine 04843
>>  
>> Phone 301-365-2093
>> (summer)  207-763-3261
>>  
>> www.openspaceworld.com
>> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST 
>> Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>>  
>> From: [email protected] 
>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Daniel Mezick
>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 11:26 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: [OSList] Open Space with Agile: Failure patterns
>>  
>> Greetings to you,
>> 
>> In Paris this week at the Global Scrum Gathering I plan to issue certain 
>> warning about specific failure patterns I have experienced when working with 
>> Open Space inside Agile adoptions. I can tell you right now that Open Space 
>> by itself is not a panacea for the complex problems associated with Agile 
>> adoption. 
>> 
>> Agile is actually a cover story about the wider act of bringing culture 
>> change (a new and unfamiliar game) to an enterprise situation (the old story 
>> we all want to cling to). The SPIRIT book pretty much spells out the 
>> problem. 
>> 
>> I've learned that there are actually more ways to fail with Open Space in 
>> Agile adoptions than there are ways to succeed. There are many ways to 
>> stumble when trying this. I'll be enumerating some of these subtle 
>> Agile-related pitfalls and traps in the Paris keynote on Tuesday, and in 
>> upcoming blog posts. Simply holding one or more canonical Open Space 
>> meetings (with full pre-planning and post processing) is not enough to 
>> neutralize the forces that oppose healthy and well Agile adoptions. The game 
>> mechanics, storytelling and passage-rite-structure elements must be present 
>> and robust for Open Space to be an effective tool in Agile adoptions. Open 
>> Space and these elements are composed in harmony with each other in the Open 
>> Agile Adoption technique.
>> 
>> If you offer training in Open Space for Facilitators and/or Sponsors, I 
>> invite you to send me your links and I will make sure they are added to the 
>> list of resources I am beginning to compile at OpenAgileAdoption.com. I plan 
>> to list in the Paris slides some specific French-language OST course 
>> offerings from French-speaking instructors located in Europe, and Quebec.
>> 
>> Kind Regards,
>> Dan
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Daniel Mezick, President
>> New Technology Solutions Inc.
>> (203) 915 7248 (cell)
>> Bio. Blog. Twitter. 
>> Examine my new book:  The Culture Game : Tools for the Agile Manager.
>> Explore Agile Team Training and Coaching.
>> Explore the Agile Boston Community. 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Harold Shinsato
> [email protected]
> http://shinsato.com
> twitter: @hajush
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