I have been slow to respond to the "harvest" thread because I had rotator cuff surgery two weeks ago and now I can only keyboard with one hand... so please be patient if typos and syntax are awkward.

That said, what I found most engaging about the earlier thread was the blend of inquiry, connectivity, dissonance, links to other bases of experience (aka - models) on deeper and broader planes, etc. than I have seen in a while.

I know there has been lots of good stuff over the years, and I know much/most of it is accessible in the cloud. For some reason this thread seemed especially rich... less about OST methods or comparative methodologies... more about underlying beliefs about people and systems filtered through the lenses of experience.

Probably a reflection of my advanced age, I kept thinking somewhere in here is a book. While I love my hard copy books, I'm not as attached to the paper as I am to the idea of a document or other text-based tool that makes me uncomfortable.

I love all of Harrison's books, but after my first OST 20+ years ago they have never made me uncomfortable. As I have continued to use OST as a significant part of my work each book helped me develop of deeper understanding of my experience and potential, which extended my comfort level at using OST in settings people told me could never deal with it. While I was tested early, I have yet to find such a group.

As I was preparing to go to the hospital I found some of the observations and questions in the last thread were troubling me... in a good way. They challenged me to test my assumptions about differentiation, integration and alignment with respect to various assertions about the best and worst in people and systems, as well as the cultural contexts of some of the observations. I found myself calling up Chris Argyris's Ladder of Inference to sort out some of my own reactions and to frame questions I was curious about.

I also found myself struck by my reactions to various expressions and assertions about the role embedded in terms like facilitator, host, convener, consultant and the fantasies related to power and control when people react to or coach on how "best" to carry out that role... whether that might refer to one right way or how to choose among options based on diverse settings. I found myself wondering about the extent to which the manner in which people (including myself) express what makes sense is a projection, taps into a deeper truth, both or something else.

I'm not quite sure where else to take this ramble, but the meds are kicking in so I better stop now.

--
Shalom,

Chris Kloth
ChangeWorks of the Heartland
254 South Merkle Road
Bexley, OH 43209-1801
ph 614-239-1336
fax 614-237-2347
www.got2change.com

Think globally. Act locally.


Quoting Harold Shinsato <[email protected]>:

Michael thank you for pulling out that first OSList email. Wow, how we've grown! Look at these stats:

1996
    - 57 people on OSList

2014
    - 787 people on OSList
- 2017 people on Facebook Open Space Technology group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/7189220743 - 1642 people on LinkedIn Open Space Technology group - https://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=81286 - 801 people on Open Space World Ning community - http://openspaceworld.ning.com/ - 49 people in the "Open Space" Google Plus Circle - https://plus.google.com/stream/circles/p70fe5c7a8a52f291

(Please, if anyone knows of any other public Open Space forums, please let me know!)

Although in many ways the alternate technologies used outside the OSList are superior to the OSList, and mostly the numbers signifantly more, the depth of conversations on the OSList still remain superior.

How could appropriate technology deepen the engagement? John, I'm very grateful that you're thinking and working on this. The self-organizing system of the universe I'm sure will find a way, no matter what we do. Thank you for starting a thread to think about this.

Individual minds and hearts definitely do the best harvesting, but I see no reason that technology can't help support the process with visualizations, voting, tagging, and other possible wisdom of the crowd processes. It would also be wonderful if we could do more small group work on the OSList, like in an Open Space, where only selections of smaller conversations can get pushed out to the rest of us.

A vision: in the (near) future, the OSList evolves into a technology that supports this without losing the simplicity of simple email engagement (for those who want it), and at the same time increasing our current depth, passion, relationships, engagement, and yes, love. Certainly not diminishing it, which unfortunately is what I see (at least right now) on facebook etc.

    Cheers,
    Harold

On 8/11/14 4:55 AM, Michael M Pannwitz wrote:
Dear John,

you asked:

"...are OS List discussions available at a public URL somewhere?"

At the bottom of each email I get from OSLIST it says:

OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org

and, even more directly to the archives itself

http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/

Seems to be public enough which at one time in the past led to deep discussion on ownership of these gems!

Here is the very first message back from December 13, 1996 that Murli sent to the original list of 57 os-nicks

Friends, OpenSpacers, and worldfolk,
prompted by Peggy?s posting I?ve set up a discussion list for all who have email. Any message posted to this list will automatically be distributed to anyone subscribed to this list. This way we can have an unstructured discussion going in open cyberspace...
Peace
murli

Have a great day
Greetings from Berlin
mmp

PS: In my experience harvesting, documenting, evaluating, writing books about,...etc.... are close to nothing compared with how I impacted myself with open space events. So here is my suggestion: Go out and convene an os-event, it will make your day!

On 11.08.2014 09:10, John Baxter wrote:
Yes I think wordclouds are probably about the best you can get without
the input of human minds and fingers...  I'd be very eager to know of
anything automated that could do a better job!

One option to ease the burden is a shared online editable document
(Google Docs or hackpad) and find a few contributors to at least share
the effort, with the added benefit of multiple perspectives (and methods
of recording).

This could be built in as part of the structure of conversation, much as
we might have a closing circle at an Open Space gathering... with
everybody invited to draw out the lessons or points that they thing most
worth sharing.

Ideally this practice could form part of the culture of conversation?
people will contribute more readily if they know it is coming, and have
personal experience of seeing the value of it.
This 'summing up' is one element of face-to-face that seems almost
completely absent online...

Another thing to keep in mind is referring back to source... are OS List
discussions available at a public URL somewhere?  Linking back increases
the versatility of a harvest, and decreases the pressure to capture it
all, giving people flexibility to paraphrase (synthesise).

A few cents there for the circle...



*/John Baxter/*
jsbaxter.com.au <http://www.jsbaxter.com.au>
0405 447 829
@jsbaxter_ <http://twitter.com/jsbaxter_>

/note my reclamation policy means I process my inbox once daily, if that./
/happy to hear about anything urgent via phone or Twitter/
/
/
/"Reclaiming quality of life one hack at a time"/


On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 8:15 AM, Harrison Owen <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

   Chris -- Definitely still there! And very current I think. So folks
   have a read... Harvests of days gone by and still useful...____

   __ __

   ho____

   __ __

   Winter Address____

   7808 River Falls Drive____

   Potomac, MD 20854____

   301-365-2093 <tel:301-365-2093>____

   __ __

   Summer Address____

   189 Beaucaire Ave.____

   Camden, ME 04843____

   207-763-3261 <tel:207-763-3261>____

   __ __

   Websites____

   www.openspaceworld.com <http://%20www.openspaceworld.com>____

   www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com>____

   OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
   archives of OSLIST Go
to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org____

   __ __

   *From:*OSList [mailto:[email protected]
   <mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of
   *Chris Corrigan
   *Sent:* Friday, August 08, 2014 4:01 PM


   *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
   *Subject:* Re: [OSList] What would a harvest from a long OSList
   discussion look like?____

   __ __

   You can still find that incredible document hosted at Micheal?s
   site:____

   __ __

http://www.michaelherman.com/publications/ost_nonguide.pdf____

   __ __

   Chris____

   __ __

   On Aug 8, 2014, at 12:05 PM, Harrison Owen <[email protected]
   <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____



   ____

   Lucas ? Don?t know where this fits, but several years ago Michael
   Herman and Chris Corrigan put together what they called a Non-User?s
   Guide which is essentially an annotated collection of a particularly
   rich set of discussions here on OSLIST. I haven?t checked, but I
   think it is still available onwww.openspaceworld.org
   <http://www.openspaceworld.org/>May turn out that human
   minds/fingers are still an essential part of the process no matter
   the technology. My thought would be Graduate Students. Good labor at
   a reasonable price with a possible dissertation or two.____

   ____

   Harrison____

   ____

   Winter Address____

   7808 River Falls Drive____

   Potomac, MD 20854____

   301-365-2093 <tel:301-365-2093>____

   ____

   Summer Address____

   189 Beaucaire Ave.____

   Camden, ME 04843____

   207-763-3261 <tel:207-763-3261>____

   ____

   Websites____

   www.openspaceworld.com____

   www.ho-image.com____

   OSLISTTo subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
   archives of OSLIST Go
to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org____

   ____

   *From:*OSList [mailto:[email protected]]*On
   Behalf Of*Lucas Cioffi
   *Sent:*Friday, August 08, 2014 2:52 PM
   *To:*World wide Open Space Technology email list
   *Subject:*Re: [OSList] What would a harvest from a long OSList
   discussion look like?____

   ____

   Hi All,____

   ____

   Someone reached out and suggested I try a word cloud of the
   conversation.  I took a few minutes to copy the 50 emails from the
   conversation entitled "Management and Organization" which has been
   running for the past month. I pasted it below, and if the word cloud
   doesn't come through as an attachment, you can also see it online
   here.____

   ____

   Word clouds are helpful, but I'm still left wanting more.  I can't
   put my finger on it.____

   ____

   I'm thinking that there must be some very creative harvesting
   methods used by facilitators in this group, using graphic
   facilitation and other methods.* Are your approaches to in-person
   harvesting applicable to harvesting one of our 50-email
   discussions?*____

   ____

   I'm listening to see if I can create a software for harvesting &
   summarizing email threads to unlock some of the knowledge buried in
   the OSList archives and breath new life into some of our dormant yet
   valuable discussion threads from the past.____

   ____

   Lucas Cioffi
   Co-Founder, Bark!Best
   Charlottesville, VA
   917-528-1831 <tel:917-528-1831>____

   ____

   ____

   ____

   <image002.jpg>____

   ____

   On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Lucas Cioffi <[email protected]
   <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____

   Hi All,____

   ____

   So this week many of us are watching a lively discussion thread grow
   and grow and grow.  It's awesome that it has received nearly 50
   email replies already from people all over the world, however 95% of
   the people on the list aren't active in it yet, and of course that's
   OK.____

   ____

   For me and probably others, digging into such a large conversation
   becomes a bit intimidating when the conversation is so large. ____

   *Question: So, what would a harvest from such a long OSList email
   discussion look like if it was to be useful to you personally?*____

   ____

   I'm asking the question above for two reasons:____

     * For me: Aside from being a longtime OS enthusiast, I'm building
       a tool for large online conversations and looking for ideas
       about how to create meaningful harvests from them.____
     * For all of us: Unrelated to my tool, maybe if there was an easy
       way to harvest/summarize these long and lively conversations on
       OSList, then it could give access to the conversation to those
       who do not have the time or courage to dive in directly.____
     * New voices: The younger generations spend less time on email, so
       they largely miss out on the great knowledge that's shared on a
       list like this.  So harvests might be one way to bring new
       voices to our conversations on OSList.____

   To get the most value out of a conversation, someone certainly has
   to ride along and read most of it.  But the problem is that when
   someone chooses to read one conversation in-depth, they are choosing
   to not read another great conversation in-depth.  So I'm hoping that
   a harvest can help people when they decide which conversations they
   want to invest their time in.____

   ____

   I look forward to hearing any suggestions!____

   --____

   Lucas Cioffi____

   Co-Founder, Bark!Best____

   Charlottesville, VA____

   917-528-1831 <tel:917-528-1831>____

   ____

   _______________________________________________
   OSList mailing list
   To post send emails [email protected]
   <mailto:[email protected]>
   To unsubscribe send an email [email protected]
   <mailto:[email protected]>
   To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org____

   __ __


   _______________________________________________
   OSList mailing list
   To post send emails to [email protected]
   <mailto:[email protected]>
   To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
   <mailto:[email protected]>
   To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
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_______________________________________________
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to [email protected]
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
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--
Harold Shinsato
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
http://shinsato.com
twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>




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