Hi Manav, Vishwas,
I agree with Manav. If you wash your hands once with soap, washing your them 
again with only water doesn't necessarily get your hands any cleaner - but it 
does, nevertheless, waste water.  
Thanks,
Acee
On Jan 19, 2011, at 1:11 AM, Bhatia, Manav (Manav) wrote:

> Strange as it may sound but one could actually argue that the probability of 
> finding collisions, assuming a constant checksum in a packet, will be the 
> same as not having any checksum to consider. There is imo a very little gain 
> that one gets by verifying the checksum if the hash (sha-1, etc) has been 
> verified - which is also why I believe most protocols ignore the checksum 
> value when using some auth scheme.
> 
> Cheers, Manav
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:[email protected]] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11.26 AM
>> To: Bhatia, Manav (Manav)
>> Cc: Rajesh Shetty; Acee Lindem; [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [OSPF] Supporting Authentication Trailer for OSPFv3
>> 
>> Hi Manav,
>> 
>> I am sure errors can creep past CRC32 algorithms. What I am saying is
>> by still having it, it provides anotehr level of security.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Vishwas
>> 
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 9:52 PM, Bhatia, Manav (Manav)
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Hi Vishwas,
>>> 
>>> I think computing the checksum when we're already computing 
>> the hash is redundant. There are lot of errors that can slip 
>> past the internet protocol checksum that currently exists and 
>> a lot of work has been done describing this. One such, wildly 
>> referred paper is this:
>>> 
>>> Stone, J., Greenwald, M., Partridge, C., and J. Hughes, 
>> "Performance of checksums and CRC's over real data", IEEE/    
>>         ACM Trans. Netw. vol 6, num 5, pages 529-543, 1998, 
>> <http://dx.doi.org/10.1109/90.731187>
>>> 
>>> In fact, there are several people who turn on cryptographic 
>> authentication only to detect errors that slip past OSPF's 
>> current checksum algo. I had posted a question on NANOG some 
>> time back and I had received a few responses where people 
>> said that they did what I have just described above. So, I 
>> don't think we should do checksum if we're already doing 
>> crypto authentication - I thinks its redundant and doesn't 
>> help in any way.
>>> 
>>> There is also a draft motivated by this which was presented 
>> in the last IETF.
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jakma-ospf-integrity-00
>>> 
>>> Cheers, Manav
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:[email protected]]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 10.50 AM
>>>> To: Bhatia, Manav (Manav)
>>>> Cc: Rajesh Shetty; Acee Lindem; [email protected]
>>>> Subject: Re: [OSPF] Supporting Authentication Trailer for OSPFv3
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Manav,
>>>> 
>>>> I dont think you gain much by not calculating checksum.
>>>> 
>>>> You gain a lot as any issues with the authentication algorithm like
>>>> MD5, the checksum is another level of protection.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Vishwas
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Bhatia, Manav (Manav)
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Rajesh,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, you are right. We should add text that says that
>>>> checksum SHOULD not be computed and verified when an
>>>> authentication trailer is attached to an OSPFv3 packet.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers, Manav
>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Rajesh Shetty
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 10.09 AM
>>>>>> To: 'Acee Lindem'
>>>>>> Cc: [email protected]
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OSPF] Supporting Authentication Trailer for OSPFv3
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear Acee,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just a discrepancy between ospfv2 and ospfv3:
>>>>>> IN OSPFv2 cryptographic authentication, checksum filed is set
>>>>>> to zero. IN
>>>>>> OSPFv3 authentication Trailer, both cryptographic
>>>> authentication and
>>>>>> checksum are calculated. Checksum in OSPFv3 covers ipv6
>>>> pseudo header,
>>>>>> entire ospf packet. Covering ospf packet might not be
>>>>>> necessary in this
>>>>>> scenario since cryptographic authentication already covers
>>>> the same.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Rajesh
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information
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>>>>>> but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, 
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>>>>>> phone or email immediately and delete it!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Acee
>>>>>> Lindem
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 8:39 PM
>>>>>> To: Bhatia, Manav (Manav)
>>>>>> Cc: [email protected]; Vishwas Manral
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OSPF] Supporting Authentication Trailer for OSPFv3
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Actually I was just making sure everyone was paying attention
>>>>>> :^) Since I'm
>>>>>> an author, I'll validate with Abhay and Stewart but I think
>>>>>> we can move
>>>>>> forward and make this a WG document.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Acee
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:46 PM, Bhatia, Manav (Manav) wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am sure Acee meant that the he and the authors would like
>>>>>> to see this
>>>>>> draft adopted up as a WG draft.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I agree with that sentiment and would request this to be
>>>>>> accepted as a WG
>>>>>> document. We've had several mails in the past where this work
>>>>>> was supported
>>>>>> and none that was against.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers, Manav
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Acee Lindem [mailto:[email protected]]
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 2.11 AM
>>>>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>>>>> Cc: Bhatia, Manav (Manav); Vishwas Manral
>>>>>>>> Subject: Supporting Authentication Trailer for OSPFv3
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Speaking as WG Co-Chair:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> At the last OSPF WG meeting, there was some interest in this
>>>>>>>> draft. I'm now asking for opinions for and against.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Speaking as a WG member:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The authors (myself included) would not like to make this a
>>>>>>>> WG draft. On the OSPF list and at the OSPF WG meeting, the
>>>>>>>> only dissent was on along the lines of making IPsec
>>>>>>>> (including IKEv2) work better with OSPFv3 rather than doing
>>>>>>>> this. I don't disagree that this should be a goal but I don't
>>>>>>>> think it should preclude this work.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Acee
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OSPF mailing list
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>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
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