Very interested to see how this ends up. My sources tell me managers and testers are jumping off sinking ship.
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 at 09:44, mike smith <meski...@gmail.com> wrote: > Reposted, cos it bounced ;) > > Mike > > On Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 13:23 mike smith <meski...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Another article >> >> >> https://www.itnews.com.au/news/fines-victorias-it-woes-force-21m-write-down-534151 >> > >> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 22:44 Ken Schaefer <k...@adopenstatic.com> wrote: >> >>> This works for building a bridge, when you have “firm foundations” on >>> which to build upon aka what are the immovable requirements and >>> constraints. Many infrastructure projects run into the same problems as IT >>> projects - overruns due to changing requirements, or a lack of due >>> diligence re requirements. >>> >>> >>> >>> At the same time, analysis has its own costs – the cost of employing >>> people to keep examining details, and the opportunity cost of forgone >>> benefits deferred. >>> >>> >>> >>> What I see a lot of in these messages is casting blame onto other people >>> (e.g. PMs in this case). Most PMs work within broader enterprise >>> constraints (like confidence around cost/time/effort, in order to get >>> funding approved). SMEs need to play their part in ensuring that the right >>> level of information goes to PMs, in the broader context of “getting stuff >>> done” >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> *On >>> Behalf Of *g...@greglow.com >>> *Sent:* Monday, 28 October 2019 9:20 AM >>> *To:* 'ozDotNet' <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> >>> *Subject:* RE: [OT] Fines Victoria crisis deepens >>> >>> >>> >>> I think one of the biggest issues is that so many project managers still >>> think you can plan IT projects like you plan building a bridge. The >>> difference with a bridge is that you can specify what’s needed, and it’s >>> unlikely to change before you finish building the bridge. >>> >>> >>> >>> Unfortunately though, that’s also how the people funding it look at it. >>> They want to know what it will cost before they start. >>> >>> >>> >>> Somehow, we have to get project planning to match reality. At present, >>> when there are variations from the plan, that’s seen as a problem, and seen >>> as unexpected. But the reality is that it’s totally expected. The problem >>> was the idea that bridge-style planning is appropriate. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> >>> >>> Dr Greg Low >>> >>> >>> >>> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 >>> fax >>> >>> SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sqldownunder.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csspahelp%40microsoft.com%7C1f0ea4d6b97e4d897f3708d666d1e890%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636809449091516274&sdata=SLHeEGAMmWUY5YIwcC4oAPYr%2F9RIZdi4MNASsdzwX2I%3D&reserved=0> >>> |http://greglow.me >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgreglow.me%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csspahelp%40microsoft.com%7C1f0ea4d6b97e4d897f3708d666d1e890%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636809449091526278&sdata=IU8tnAITCjBxWafi3A9XpO9lF3PIwZJ8ad3t36lnxvs%3D&reserved=0> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> *On >>> Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer >>> *Sent:* Sunday, 27 October 2019 9:38 PM >>> *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> >>> *Subject:* RE: [OT] Fines Victoria crisis deepens >>> >>> >>> >>> Depends on how your measure success. >>> >>> >>> >>> By the typical bottom-line, most projects aren’t “successes”. However, >>> lots of organisations have: >>> >>> 1. Arbitrary limits on how much contingency can be included – which >>> then doesn’t reflect the true level of uncertainty in the project >>> 2. Requirements change >>> 3. Vendors, systems integrators etc. go bust, change direction or >>> what-have-you >>> 4. Your project competes with everyone else’s for scarce capital, so >>> everyone has an incentive to downplay cost, and upsell benefits >>> 5. Technological cost estimates can be done relatively accurately, >>> but large-scale projects include significant organisational change which >>> is >>> much harder to estimate/cost up-front. >>> >>> >>> >>> By my guess, about 15-20% of large IT projects ($50-100m+) are >>> successful. Maybe 20-30% are real failures. Everything else is in a bit of >>> a grey area where they are failures based on initial cost/time/features >>> criteria, but might have been successful if business cases were allowed to >>> be more realistic. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> *On >>> Behalf Of *g...@greglow.com >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 23 October 2019 2:25 PM >>> *To:* 'ozDotNet' <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> >>> *Subject:* RE: [OT] Fines Victoria crisis deepens >>> >>> >>> >>> Not sure about that. I endlessly hear that the success ratio for large >>> IT projects is around 30%, not up around 70 or 80%. >>> >>> >>> >>> It’s quite appalling really. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> >>> >>> Dr Greg Low >>> >>> >>> >>> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 >>> fax >>> >>> SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sqldownunder.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csspahelp%40microsoft.com%7C1f0ea4d6b97e4d897f3708d666d1e890%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636809449091516274&sdata=SLHeEGAMmWUY5YIwcC4oAPYr%2F9RIZdi4MNASsdzwX2I%3D&reserved=0> >>> |http://greglow.me >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgreglow.me%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csspahelp%40microsoft.com%7C1f0ea4d6b97e4d897f3708d666d1e890%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636809449091526278&sdata=IU8tnAITCjBxWafi3A9XpO9lF3PIwZJ8ad3t36lnxvs%3D&reserved=0> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> *On >>> Behalf Of *mike smith >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 23 October 2019 12:45 PM >>> *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> >>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Fines Victoria crisis deepens >>> >>> >>> >>> Success stories don't seem to make it into MSM. pity, because you'd >>> think there's more successful outcomes than failures >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 12:24 Greg Keogh <gfke...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Interesting front page article in The Age newspaper today >>> <https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/fines-victoria-system-collapses-leaving-massive-hole-in-state-budget-20191022-p5333d.html> >>> about a Victorian government IT disaster. IT disasters are routine (I'm >>> sure we've all caused a few!) but it's interesting that they actually name >>> the software as VIEW from a company called Civica. The article is a bit >>> vague about what's actually wrong, it just says "[it] doesn't work", "the >>> system was absolute chaos" and systems are not "talking to" their >>> computers. Does anyone have inside gossip about what really happened? >>> >>> >>> >>> There was another vast IT disaster a few years ago related to the >>> education system I think, where dodgy contracts were being awarded to >>> mates, and I think the loss ran into the hundreds of millions. That story >>> vanished from the news and I never found out what happened. >>> >>> >>> >>> *Greg K* >>> >>>
