This is interesting to me and as a Mothercraft Nurse this is a topic that we discussed a lot and the books were studied etc.  Our class conclusions were something like this -
A child will NOT sleep if he or she is fearful, stressed, insecure or is unhappy or uncomfortable in some way i.e.: hunger, tummy ache, dirt nappy etc....
If the child's needs are met and he/she is tired then sleep will follow.
 
There are three things that you can NOT make a fight over with a child because the child will always win - Eating, Sleeping and Toileting.
Children will eat, will sleep and will be toilet trained when they are Happy, content and comfortable to do so. As adults we are there for our children if a child asks for food, comfort or any basic need we should give it to them unless we have a genuine reason not to.  I will try to explain this...
 
A story that I remember went like this..
The Mother was sitting at the table eating tea and the child asked for a drink.   The mother says "No."  The child asks again and the Mother says, "No."  The child cries and asks again for a drink and the mother gets up and gets the child a drink.  ---  What is wrong with that?
 
What reason could she have had for not getting the child a drink - is it because she can not be bothered getting up and going to the fridge or is it because she wants the child to eat some more tea before having a drink. 
She then gave in and got the child a drink and so it was not of utmost importance to her that the child eat.  She therefore, had no reason to say,"No"  - she should have got the drink on the first request or replied, "Yes, you can have a drink as soon as I have finished this mouthful and I can get it for you."  A basic and simple event that can teach us so much....
 
How often do we say "No" to our children for our own convenience?
 
Before you deny your child a basic need  - (remember this includes comfort!) ask yourself, who am I doing this for?  Is this because I cannot be bothered or do I have a genuine reason to deprive my child.  If you have a genuine reason to say "No" that you can justify to yourself and to the child then stick to it and don't give in.
If you have no genuine reason not to provide for your child then don't say "No" in the first place as this puts you in a position where you will eventually give in and the child knows that if they pester or cry then your answer can be changed and they will test you every time.
 
How this applies to control crying - going in and out etc. regardless of the principles of talking or not talking you are each time giving in to the child for the child needs comfort and you need to go in and comfort your child - you are standing outside the door stressed and not doing anything else so ask yourself - why deprive them of comfort in the first place?  Sometimes rocking them to sleep for ten mins can be much easier for both rather than a two hour screaming fit going in and out of the room. 
 
this happened last week....
My son has just started day care at age 2 - for one day a week.  On the night after his first day he wanted me to stay with him while he went to sleep and it took him some time to get to sleep.  I sat by him quietly but I was there - he had been separated from me and needed this comfort - as he gets used to the center he will no longer need that every time but for the three quarters of an hour of time it took for him to go off to sleep and for me to sit by his bed to give him that security - I could have done dishes, cleaned up, had a shower or got on the computer - I could have said, "No" and many parents would think it justifiable.  However, I could not as I knew he needed comfort - and so it is an individual thing. 
Each mother knows their own child and their own child's needs - if you have a happy and content and secure child - he/she will sleep, eat and even toilet train without drama. 
 
This applies to all children from birth to adulthood ....
 
Ask yourself next time you say "No." - would it really cause harm?  Would it really hurt my child to say, "Yes"? Would it really hurt my child to hug them or nurture them when they are crying because they need me?  Am I only saying "No" because I am programmed to or I am doing what the book says I should.  Am I only saying, "No" because I am being lazy?
If you can then stand by the answer, "NO." then you are justified and your child should respect your answer.  You will also feel good about your answer and not stand there in tears and be upset by the conflict that has occurred etc.
 
It really is that simple on an individual level and knowing the individual child's basic needs.
As it says in the Bible that our Father in Heaven provides for us - he knows what we need before we need it and does not deny our basic needs if we have faith in him.  This is how we should parent our children!  Let your child have faith in you!  Know what they need and let them be secure in the fact that you will only say "No" when you have a genuine reason. 
 
Hope this has made sence - it is getting late and my brain is a bit scrambled.
 
Luv to all
Rhonda.
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 8:03 PM
Subject: RE: A thread to check - as bad as babywise

Oh dear!  That’s a very sad story!!  My heart goes out to that woman.  My best friend is a podiatrist, and has a baby 9 months old…mine is 10 months.  Although we agree upon most things, controlled crying is one thing we don’t.  My baby sleeps with us, her baby sleeps in a cot.  My baby is bottle fed, granted, and hers breastfed, but we both had sleep issues at one stage.  Our dear ones kept waking up, all night long for food and comfort.  This was around the time I had unfortunately weaned, but, feeling that I had lost a degree of affection with my daughter from not breastfeeding, I brought her to bed with us.  My friend started controlled crying to wean her son off night feeds (about 5 months old).  She is just starting to see success, but on the occasional night, about once a week, he wakes up every 40 minutes, and they have to go through the controlled crying routines.  My baby rarely wakes up at night.  Maybe once a week.  She still starts the night off in her cot, so she will still sleep in there too.  It works really well.  Moral of the story – there is an alternative to controlled crying. 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2002 6:25 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A thread to check - as bad as babywise

 

In a message dated 25/01/02 3:01:00 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



I have just pasted this in here for your interest - THESE are Australian mainstream mums -it is very scary -I cant believe how anyone can be so disconnected from their babies -or advocate such horror!
This is why I am looking for gentle voices to invclude in my crying book - I dont see any point in doing 'another one the same as the others'  with a 'one size fits all 'approach we and our babies are individuals so there really isnt one 'way' but there is a lot of pressure happening out there.
Pinky



Hi Pinky......

just reading these women's acedotes just demonstrates to me the lack of education these women have received with regards to BF......and what demand BF is all about. I too wonder what/who causes women to become so fixated on babies sleeping through the night as newborns etc....It seems from these stories to be totally consuming for these women.....Education again would seem to be the key, and some work on affirming these women in their OWN abilities to be mothers to their babies - rather than seeking approval/advice from such crappy sources as these 'quick fix' books. Whilst these sleep settling techniques/regimes may seemingly work in the short term......what of their effects on these children in the long term?????? Noone so far has been able to tell me that !!!!

An anecdote of my own - a friend who was once a 'controlled modified comforting' advocate........A personal friend has her first babe well into her thirties - highly educated woman, very powerful and assertive in many facets of her life. Life style very structured/busy and remarked many a time throughout her pregnancy that ....."the baby will have to just fit in with MY life"...........

Surprise, surprise !!! This woman discovers that babies are little individuals with their own agendas and she was not 'coping' well with her lived experience of motherhood. Sleep deprived....exhausted and hating BF cos it was soooooo "time consuming"......she trotted off at 9 weeks with babe to a sleep clinic for two weeks.... to get some rest and assistance in helping her to settle the babe and 'GET HIM TO SLEEP THRU' !!!!!!!!!!!!!

True to form she returned home "a new women" and this place "was a god send" and she set about recruiting every women she knew to try this 'modified control comforting' technique she had been taught. On visiting one afternoon I had to make excuses to leave as I was sooo over listening about how wonderful controlled crying was and having to sit and try to speak over a screaming/distressed baby who had no interest at all in being "put down" as per the regime.....and left to scream all alone, no comfort at all; no mother love, no mother breast smell, no breast milk - the "milk bar's closed pal" no comforting/soothing touch, no soothing words. This babe was left as per instructions: Do not speak to him, do not make eye contact with him - roll him over AWAY from you, tuck him in securely and walk away......ONLY revisit after 5 minutes... and gradually let the time get longer and longer........

Sure this worked for a while - this baby learnt that his mother would dessert him and no point in crying cos she's not coming back. So 'cured'... this baby slept then thru the night from about 3.5 months old and BF soon diminished too not long after this.

So what's my point in all this rambling.......for this woman this method was a "quick fix" that got her through that period of her life..... only to manifest again when this child turned two. He no longer then slept through the night, constantly waking (4-5 times a night) and screaming for his mother.......He is now eight (still wakes 2-3 times a night) and at school and has "severe separation issues" with his mother....very insecure little boy who walks the house searching for her when ever she's out of his sight. This woman NOW detests 'control crying/modifed control comforting' or what ever else we label it......as she believes this to "have caused" her son's distrust of her... his insecurities and devastating separation issues. I now can only watch as she peels him off her leg and says "Mummy's only going to the toilet and won't be a minute".... and ends up with him standing in the toilet with her !!!!!!

Yours in birth,

Tina Pettigrew
Birthworks
Independent CBE and aspiring B.Mid Midwife.
Convenor, Aust B. Mid Student Collective.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BMidStudentCollective
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

" As we trust the flowers to open to new life
               - So we can trust birth"

Harriette Hartigan.
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