I too did not mind my midwives checking my baby's heart rate during labour. I remember them doing it in a very non-intrusive way (and not overly regular also) - they actually got down on the ground and contorted, to listen - when I was in my different positions - so it went with the flow - not actually stopping the momentum of my fairly quick labour. I too, felt reassurance hearing my baby's heart beat...we were both in this together...
regards, Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: jo hunter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: response from Pat and Nicky and fetal hearts > Hi Marilyn, > I personally don't and didn't have a problem with my fetal hearts being > listened to at my own homebirths where there was a midwife present. > I think the argument is, correct me if I'm wrong, how often to listen in. > Thinking of my own labours I would consider after ever contraction to be a > bit over the top and I could imagine getting annoyed should someone be > trying to do that to me. I'm not a trained midwife so have no idea what the > standard of practice is regarding this - but every 2 minutes??? > I agree that hearing the heart when in labour is reassuring and reminds us > of why we are doing the whole labour thing and yes, mothers should most > definately not fear the midwife listening in. > All the best > Jo > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marilyn Kleidon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 1:35 AM > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: response from Pat and Nicky and fetal hearts > > > > Hi Jo and all: > > > > This timing of listening to fetal hearts keeps coming up and I find it > > concerning. Having worked and studied in the USA in homebirths and been to > > workshops with Ina May Gaskin et al., I do not recall any of my mentors > > there even debating whether to listen to the FH or not during labour and > > birth. I want to make it clear I am talking about studying in the > heartland > > of homebirth in the USA not some obstetric hospital there. Now we have all > > been to births where the last thing you have time for is getting an > > obligatory fetal heart before the baby is born but that is a no-brainer > and > > a quite different situation from a midwife in attendance at a birth not > > listening to the baby to avoid disturbing the ambience/mood of the mother. > > On our very first interview with our mothers to be we discussed how mother > > and baby would be monitored in labour the frequency etc., our transfer > > policies, there were no surprises in store for the women. Our women were > > happy to have their BP, pulse and temp monitored in labour and understood > > why and how often we would do this, they were also happy for us to listen > to > > the baby at 30 min, 15 min, and between ctx intervals we would discuss > doing > > this with headphones if using a doppler, or using a pinards or a fetoscope > > if they didn't want the u/s technology used. As I think Lesley said, there > > are many births that the neighbour lady could have popped in to catch in > > which these monitorings are nothing more than reassuring and they could > lull > > you into believing they aren't necessary, what we are there for is to > catch > > the anomolous birth where things aren't quite right and decisions need to > be > > made. Also as has been said things can appear normal if you aren't > > monitoring when in fact they aren't, sometimes mothers become aware that > > something is amiss and other times they don't. Particularly when you have > > prolonged first or second stage I believe you need to be listening for > fetal > > well being. > > > > In the practices I worked in our transfer rate was low (between 10 to 20 % > > depending on the proportion of primips in the practice at any point in > time) > > as was the c/s rate (5%). I have to say that I have never been present at > a > > homebirth where the monitoring appeared to have a negative effect by > > increasing fear/angst, adrenaline etc, though theoretically I can see and > > understand the argument. Quite honestly I had never even heard > intermittent > > auscultation as being a problem until I read it on this list. I know that > > studies have linked efm and ctg's with increased intervention and so we do > > need to be aware of the misuse and misunderstanding of technology (it is > my > > understanding that it is not the trace so often that is wrong as the > > interpretation of the trace as could be the interpretation of decels heard > > by doppler). I do think we need to be cautious about what we discard or > want > > discarded and I don't think mothers or fathers need to fear their midwife > > listening to the fetal heart: it should be reassuring. > > > > marilyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "jo hunter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 12:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: response from Pat and Nicky > > > > > > > Hi Nicole, > > > Great to see you the other day - even though brief. > > > About the hospital run homebirth service, I think that alot of the > > comments > > > that are seen as negative are a reflection of the lack of faith > consumers > > as > > > well as midwives have in the hospital system. I think we all agree that > > Pat > > > and Nicky are wonderful women centred midwives with alot of experience. > > The > > > 'negative' comments, although may appear to be directed at them, > actually > > > are not, they are directed at the 'system'. > > > We have a hospital system in this country that can't even serve the > women > > > who want to use them, with the majority of women (unless really strong > and > > > educated and well supported) suffering unnecessary intervention at the > > hands > > > of overzealous obstetricians. Midwives hands are tied because of the > > > hospital protocols under which they must operate or they fear losing > their > > > jobs. This has been described by some midwives on this list as a > reality. > > > I was ignorant to this for some time, having had homebirths myself and > > only > > > knowing what other women had told me of their experience and treatment > in > > > the 'system'. Now as I support more and more women as their doula in > > > hospitals I am appalled at what goes on. It must be the most > > > incredibly frustrating job working as a hospital midwife and I applaud > all > > > who soldier on regardless. > > > The reason a hospital run homebirth service concerns me is for the very > > > reason that it is hospital run. I don't doubt that the midwives > operating > > > and working in the service all have the very best intentions and all > > > advocate women centred care, however I have to question whether, to some > > > extent their hands will also be tied with the fear of losing their jobs > > > should a situation arise that an Independent midwife may see as within > the > > > normal realm but the protocols and guidelines of the hospital system see > > as > > > abnormal. There are many many > > > 'situations' during labour and birth where this is evident (even down to > > how > > > often a midwife should > > > listen to a baby's heart during labour, whether this is necessary after > > > every contraction so the midwife has an idea of how the baby is coping > or > > > whether it is yet another unnecessary intervention the women is > subjected > > to > > > that may > > > interrupt the rhythm of her labour) > > > Of course we are all striving to achieve the same goal, real choices for > > > women, publicly funded homebirth and one to one midwifery care. It is > > > imperative that we get it right the first time round (for NSW) as this > is > > > most likely our only chance. > > > So pleased you've joined the list Nicole - will catch you soon. > > > Jo Hunter > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ron & Nicole Christensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 4:37 PM > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: response from Pat and Nicky > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > As a newcomer to this mailing list, I haven't had the time to go > through > > > all > > > > of the responses to the 'models of midwifery care' debate - but just > > > merely > > > > browsing through some of the e-mails - it perplexes me that there > would > > be > > > > so much negativity - even more so - when we have two VERY experienced, > > > VERY > > > > wise, VERY respected; VERY intuitive; VERY woman centred and VERY > > > homebirth > > > > orientated midwives who are at the forefront of developing such a > model > > > > inclusive of homebirth ..... that in itself will hold my faith, > > confidence > > > > and belief in this model. > > > > I would also have faith in the midwives who would be part of such a > > > model - > > > > to be woman/family centred and have a strong belief and love of birth > as > > > a > > > > natural and normal family event ... I just cannot envisage a > medically > > > > minded midwife (which is contradictory in itself!) to be interested in > > > being > > > > a part of this - nor do I see Pat or Nicky allowing such a midwife on > > the > > > > team. I do not believe that a homebirth midwife attached to a > midwifery > > > > model at a hospital would be any less passionate and loving as an > > > > independent midwife - and yes, I too can see interest from independent > > > > midwives who haven't practised since the indemnity crisis or from > those > > > who > > > > need a bit more security - great!!! > > > > Especially in the light of this ever increasing caesarean epidemic - I > > > > embrace and praise this attempt to provide homebirths as part of a new > > > > midwifery model. I know that it is something that I would absolutely > > use - > > > > especially when the cost of an independant midwife rules our little > one > > > > income family out of that league (our recent homebirth was a loving > > gift). > > > > I see it as a positive and exciting step forward in what is a very > bleak > > > and > > > > dismal maternity service that currently exists. > > > > I just hope that Pat and Nicky do not get so disheartened by the lack > of > > > > support, that they would consider forgetting about setting up the > > > proposed > > > > model. > > > > We should all be saying Go Pat and Nicky!!! (I know I am!!!). > > > > > > > > kindest regards, > > > > Nicole > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Andrea Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 3:03 PM > > > > Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: response from Pat and Nicky > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: response from Pat and Nicky > > > > > >Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:59:40 +1100 > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear Andrea > > > > > > > > > > > >Thank you for sending us the emails that have been circulating > about > > > the > > > > > >proposed homebirth model at St George.We find much of the content > > > > > >insulting and grossly ill informed. > > > > > > > > > > > >It is hard to imagine where the information has been collected from > > and > > > > we > > > > > >find it very sad that so much can be said about what is not yet > > formed > > > in > > > > > >any way. > > > > > > > > > > > >There is a meeting in a few weeks time and these views will be well > > > > > >represented and discussed in a respectful and honourable manner. > > > > > > > > > > > >Please do not forward us any more emails. > > > > > > > > > > > >You may post this onto ozmidwifery > > > > > > > > > > > >Many thanks > > > > > > > > > > > >Pat Brodie & Nicky Leap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > Andrea Robertson > > > > > Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth > > Education > > > > > > > > > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > web: www.birthinternational.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > > > > -- > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > -- > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. 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