RE: [ozmidwifery] Backward step

[Christine Holliday]

I understand why people refer to the Bachelor of Midwifery as a direct entry course but I wish we could learn to stop doing this.  If we continue it still means we are measuring midwifery against nursing or still referring to nursing, we never see Registered Nurses referred to as direct entry nurses.  If you are having difficulty explaining direct entry midwifery to managers etc if you refer to RN’s as direct entry nurses they do seem to get a better grasp on this.   I don’t intend this to sound critical just to try and cause change. Christine     -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Mike & Lindsay Kennedy Sent: 05 October 2006 07:49 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step   I would like to reply to this one as a just about to finish Mid student with 6 years as an RN. There are two ways to become a midwife in Au, a one year (18 months) upgrade or a 3 year direct entry course. The upgrade course for RN's relies on the fact that you have some nursing experience WHY? From where I am now, I absolutely agree that an RN cannot do the full job of a midwife without formalised midwifery training. Before I began my course, I too thought that midwifery was really just another nursing specialisation like an ICU nurse or a Psyc Nurse.  There are a lot of skills and practices that are common to both professions especially as most of us work in a hospital setting. Midwifery requires advanced people skills, time management skills and assessment skills as well as learning to work within the hospital system and learning to work with other health care professionals in an often autonomous role. Even after 3 years of training RN's need a new grad year to develop the basics of these skills and probably a further 2 or 3 years to become proficient. Obviously maturity, background and life experience all play a part in this transition.  I have met a couple of new grad RN's who have gone straight into 1 year mid training and they appear to find it difficult as the upgrade program appears to expect a level of knowledge/experience not yet developed in a new grad RN. Not to say that experienced RN's find it a breeze, its not. It's hard work and can be bloody stressful ;) Obviously this is a generalisation and once again the maturity, background and life experience of the individual will apply.  In NZ RN's were able to upgrade in a similar way. However those RN's felt that they were not receiving as adequate training as the direct entry Midwives. So now RN's complete the same course as the direct entry mids with a credit for a portion of the course based on their qualification/experiance.  So that is why I feel as an RN almost midwife that RN's should have at least one year post grad experience prior to training. The better way would be to do the 3 year direct entry course if you want to be a midwife and not an RN as well.  Some more thoughts on the original post.  It feels like the proposal to train RN's to work in mid is not based on a concern for the patients or the RN's but a way of staffing the ward cheaply. They could offcourse pay for these RN's to do the Mid training which is available, as it is appropriate for mid students who happen to be RN's to work on the ward under midwife supervision. Assuming the RN's are willing to complete the appropriate assignment work etc. If they aren't they are they really the right ppl to be working on maternity in the first place. Most RN's would agree that it would be inappropriate to replace RN's with AIN's and train them to look after patients, take obs, change dressings, mobilise patents etc. Then have an RN be held responsible should the AIN make a mistake or fail to recognise a patient who had deteriorated or needed reviewing. That is the legal situation in Queensland if an RN works in a maternity unit. They work under the supervision of the midwife, so the midwife is the one held responsible for the practice of the RN should there be a problem. Remember an American obstetrics nurse is just that, not a midwife (yes America has midwives too). They really are nurses as Doctors perform most of the advanced birthing roles (like actually delivering the baby etc) that midwives do here.   Rgds Mike   On 10/2/06, Rene and Tiffany <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It has been fantastic reading all the responses to the nurse/midwife question.  As a nurse about to begin midwifery training, I look forward to learning and developing the specialist skills you wonderful women have described!  My original response stemmed from the fact that I became a nurse ONLY to become a midwife (as there was no other way at the time), but found that, I was unable to get any exposure to such, as training nurses and RN's are generally unwelcome in maternity.  I would have given anything to have the opportunity to work and 'help out' in maternity whilst waiting to secure a student midwife place.  Instead I went straight into Mental Health after I qualified as an RN, whilst waiting for one of the 6 midwifery training positions that are offered.  Perhaps this does raise the issue about providing more training places for student midwives, and why is it that we have to work as NURSES for a minimum 12 months before we can train as midwives, when as many have pointed out – 'where is the nursing care in midwifery?'  Thanks J   From: owner- ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner- ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of brendamanning Sent: Monday, 2 October 2006 10:13 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step   Going back to the maternity nurse or Gen/ Obstetric nurse working in Midwifery is how NZ worked in the 70's & 80's. It was unsatisfactory then & would be the same now, despite the fact the we did 6 months obs in our general training we weren't midwives & it showed.  I worked in mid whilst attending homebirths, worked in birth suite, postnatal, taught pre-natal classes & spent 3 years in charge of SCN as a RGON in the early 80's & when I went to train as a midwife just like Di M I too found it a revelation.   It's a retrograde step & undermines all the recognition of your specialised profession you Australian midwives have fought so hard for. It's just another path on: "follow the American leader".   With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: D. Morgan To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE:   I agree Michelle, I too worked in a rural area prior to completing my Mid many years ago and can still remember the revelations I felt while learning Midwifery. As an RN non Midwife, I was quite ignorant of what a true Midwife's role involved. It was scarey stuff. Cheers Di M -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com "Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets." Unknown