thanks Tibi, what are your thoguhts on the sustainability of lavish lifestyles and how accessible they are for the whole of humanity ?
Michel On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 12:08 AM, Tiberius Brastaviceanu < [email protected]> wrote: > Michel, I think capital will be subjected to p2p because p2p has the > biggest lever of power, *innovation*. This is what drives the early > manifestations in Sensorica. Corporations will maintain an edge, > *production*, until p2p figures out how to to that reliably and > efficiently. We have very little experience with it, but I don't see any > important barrier. Automation helps our cause. > > The natural human tendencies to control, accumulate, and live a lavish > life will move within open value networks. I see early signs of it. New > entrepreneurial skills are required for open value networks, and some > individuals who possess them will become essential. It all depends on how > well they will be able to negotiate rewards associated with their essential > roles within the OVN. > There are a lot of people out there that contact me/us and ask to use the > NRP and implement the model. Most of them are looking for a software > magical solution that can spark and sustain an open venture, until they > realize that the NRP is just a tool. I tell people that they need a new set > of skills in order to launch a successful peer production operation. These > skills are very rare and people who have them will be able to greatly > influence these new networks. I am confident that as more and more people > acquire these skills the amount of influence these individuals can exert on > their networks will diminish, because there are no mechanisms to preserve > that power. > > But I am not worried about capital, as it is organized today, because it > is losing its commanding height, innovation. > > Again today I exchanged with someone from California, a small startup that > burned half of a million in grant money to get a minimal viable product > out, they failed and they are now knocking on our door. These exchanges are > more and more frequent! Their first attitude is to instrumentalize > SENSORICA as a crowdsourcing network, while trying to hold on to the value > capturing mechanisms. I tell them that they have two choices, go the Uber > of innovation way, preserve their IP and later share their equity with > private investors, once they reach critical mass, or the SENSORICA way > (500K is plenty to get this project in orbit), and share their equity with > their peers who co-develop it. They are considering SENSORICA very, very > seriously, because the classical close innovation model doesn't work > anymore, too slow, they risk their first to market advantage, they set > themselves up for slow penetration rates, etc. > > > > On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 7:17 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> I'm eager to see Tom's reaction, on how his theoretical analysis and >> wishes, are confronted with the reality of labor commons actually emerging, >> >> but I don't share Tibi's analysis that this is un-problematic, in fact, >> what Tibi and Sensororica are doing, how well would be the question, is to >> create membranes that 'discipline' extractive capital to the needs of the >> commoners; if that is NOT done well, it can also be an extractive mechanism >> that allows corporations to profit from the largely free labour donated to >> these platforms >> >> that is as much a struggle as the struggle between labor and capital in >> commodity labor, >> >> Michel >> >> On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Tiberius Brastaviceanu < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Tom for sharing this article. I am going to read it with great >>> interest. I copied Alexandre from Ouishare MTL, who has a passion for the >>> future of labor. >>> >>> Here's my first gut reaction to this. >>> >>> The underlying assumption is the struggle between labor and capital. But >>> if our economic system is reconfiguring this relationship is no longer the >>> same. >>> Peer production networks like www.sensorica.co can be seen as new ways >>> of organizing labor, co-managing resources, redistribution of benefits, ... >>> All the means of production belong to individuals, are co-owned or are >>> under nondominium or commons property regimes, and they are shared >>> according to some rules. I don't like to think of the network as an >>> accumulation of labor, labor potential that serves capital, unless you are >>> thinking about centralized crowdsourcing platforms that play the role of >>> intermediary between the crowd and corporations. In the case of SENSORICA I >>> see it as an aggregation of labor, skills, resources, for projects that are >>> driven by the crowd, for the crowd. >>> >>> If you bet on platform capitalism and you think that these centralized >>> crowdsourcing platforms will rule the world, the uberization of work, then >>> labor, as subjected to corporations for production, distribution and >>> rewards, then you might want to think of protective measures for labor, you >>> may want to make it possible for labor to achieve a new equilibrium of >>> forces. >>> >>> If you bet on peer production a la SENSORICA all this opposition >>> disappears. >>> >>> There is a Facebook thread where I mention our observations of capital >>> being more and more subjected to peer production rules, from our experience >>> with servicing corporations. >>> >>> Some links >>> >>> Interfaces between open p2p networks and classical institutions >>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ABmC6YJsszlIPoL-YXU3GF-PLHY0tmQdocBExswh7Lw/edit> >>> On redistribution of resources >>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F19rvACy80_0k3p32dI2NReuVkmozRvDJceaQCuf8y0/edit> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Michel Bauwens < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> thanks Tom, >>>> >>>> Michel >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 11:36 PM, Tom Walker <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes, Michel. Briefly, a few years ago I wrote a piece called "Time on >>>>> the Ledger" that sketches the rudiments of a social accounting framework >>>>> that could be used by a labour commons unionism. It's posted on Scribd: >>>>> https://www.scribd.com/doc/44657733/Time-on-the-Ledger-Social-Accounting-for-the-Good-Society >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Michel Bauwens < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Could you be very specific about this Tom, >>>>>> >>>>>> I work with post-corporate entrepreneurial coalitions and labour >>>>>> mutuals , and it would be of interest to me if you could explain the >>>>>> practicalities of how this would work ? >>>>>> >>>>>> have you looked into contributive accounting systems like Sensorica's >>>>>> >>>>>> how does that relate to your ideas, >>>>>> >>>>>> for example: >>>>>> http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Interfacing_Open_Peer_Production_Organizations_with_Classical_Institutions >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> CheckFrom: Tom Walker <[email protected]> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: [NetworkedLabour] Fwd: [Debate-List] (Fwd) >>>>>> Radical leisure, less work, more commoning (Eva Swidler) >>>>>> To: P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> >>>>>> Message-ID: >>>>>> < >>>>>> canz+bqxmmvc9seh1rf52ghqijirv_6rcouzya_kyjgm+rpd...@mail.gmail.com> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope this article sparks the conversation that needs to take place. >>>>>> It >>>>>> certainly raises the issues that need to be addressed. >>>>>> >>>>>> In my view, the next step in thinking about labour, leisure and the >>>>>> commons >>>>>> is to conceptualize labour power as a common pool resource. Unions >>>>>> have >>>>>> traditionally bargained for collective terms for individualized work >>>>>> contracts, which reinforces the selling time for money paradigm. "A >>>>>> fair >>>>>> day's work for a fair day's wage." Treating labour power as a common >>>>>> pool >>>>>> resource, however, would require the development of an entirely >>>>>> different, >>>>>> social accounting framework in which collective interests of security >>>>>> and >>>>>> community -- commonalty, to use the Luddites' term -- are >>>>>> prioritized. I've >>>>>> written a few things on labour power as a common pool resource and >>>>>> Paul >>>>>> Burkett discussed the concept in Marx and Nature. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - >>>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >>>>>> >>>>>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: >>>>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >>>>>> >>>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Tom Walker (Sandwichman) >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: >>>> http://commonstransition.org >>>> >>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - >>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >>>> >>>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: >>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >>>> >>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> t!b! <http://www.google.com/profiles/tiberius.brastaviceanu> >>> co-founder of SENSORICA <http://www.sensorica.co>: an open value >>> network (or open enterprise) >>> co-founder of CAKE <http://aces-cake.org/>: consulting for the new >>> economy >>> founder of Multitude Project <http://multitudeproject.blogspot.ca/>: >>> informing the new multitude >>> >>> Google Profile <https://plus.google.com/117593809719446924575/about> >>> Facebook Tiberius Brastaviceanu >>> <http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000279944184> >>> Twitter @TiberiusB <http://twitter.com/TiberiusB> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: >> http://commonstransition.org >> >> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >> >> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: >> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >> >> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >> > > > > -- > t!b! <http://www.google.com/profiles/tiberius.brastaviceanu> > co-founder of SENSORICA <http://www.sensorica.co>: an open value network > (or open enterprise) > co-founder of CAKE <http://aces-cake.org/>: consulting for the new economy > founder of Multitude Project <http://multitudeproject.blogspot.ca/>: > informing the new multitude > > Google Profile <https://plus.google.com/117593809719446924575/about> > Facebook Tiberius Brastaviceanu > <http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000279944184> > Twitter @TiberiusB <http://twitter.com/TiberiusB> > -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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