thank you Arthur, I need to see you again to understand all the added innovations in your approach since we met in Canada ,
I am keynoting at the oxchain conference in London on 22 may if you had any overview slide I could use that shows the power of holo/holochain as an example of the criteria I shared earlier today, that would be great, just a suggestion <g> Michel On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 9:08 PM, Arthur Brock <[email protected]> wrote: > I believe the design of Holo fuel is a disruptive non-token > cryptocurrency pattern which transforms value producers (hosts) into > currency issuers, but also initially ties into the mainstream economy > through reserve accounts to help migrate value from the privatized economy > into this new commons. As you may know the business model of Holo is akin > to how AirBnB eclipsed the hotel industry without ever building a hotel, > Holo intends to leverage Holochain to eclipse the cloud hosting industry > without ever needing to build a data center. > > We are also spinning up an incubator and "Commons Engine" group to take > the tools we've built for our own currency/organizational/governance and > provide them to new commons projects / platform cooperatives that want to > take a similar community self-capitalization path, but use a different > asset for the value stability (instead of hosting power, it could be food, > housing, energy, transport, etc.). > > Most people haven't yet figured out quite how different this approach will > prove to be from existing cryptocurrencies, and they're still assuming it's > just another coin. So we'll see how this plays out as Holo launches and > the temporary ERC20 HOT is replaced by the value-stable mutual credit Holo > fuel. > > We are even considering a slight modification to our plans to keep HOT in > existence as the single bridge to cryptocurrency exchanges. If we take this > approach, HOT may climb the charts to become one of the top > cryptocurrencies. It reached #62 last week just one week after our small > ICO and before we've really released any information that would boost the > credibility of our project/platform. > > -art > > ᐧ > > On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> hi bob, >> >> there are conflicts about fairness and fair rewards, which I would not >> call capitalist infighting, since it based on feelings of justice , >> reciprocity etc.. >> >> and then there are conflicts where people want more than the other, and >> use market dynamics to get it, >> >> is that the case in the faircoin community ? >> >> Michel >> >> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 8:38 PM, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I agree that crypto currencies are taking off, and we know people who >>> have made some money and are now trying to do things with it. >>> >>> We also see for example Fair.coop that is able to pay people because >>> of their successful crypto currency, but it has also engendered a lot >>> of infighting along totally capitalist principles. So I agree at least >>> partly with Michael. Not everybody descended into competition, but >>> enough to make the atmosphere smell of sulfur and brimstone now and >>> then... >>> >>> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 12:26 PM, Michel Bauwens >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > there is a paradox though, >>> > >>> > * sovereign money is still going strong >>> > >>> > * complementary curriencies exist in spades, but are everywhere really >>> > marginal >>> > >>> > * Crypto currencies have many problematic aspects, but they are >>> generating >>> > massive investments in new infrastructures >>> > >>> > * we have theories of what money should be, but they are not >>> implemented ... >>> > >>> > in that context, taking something that seems to take root, but >>> transforming >>> > it to broader egaliterian interests, seems a good strategy >>> > >>> > On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 6:17 PM, Michael Linton < >>> [email protected]> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> There's much good thinking here, but thinking still inside the old >>> >> familiar box of asset, control, property, distribution .... >>> >> >>> >> So their ideas are still firmly embedded in systems of rivalrous >>> >> competition. >>> >> >>> >> The ends they project can be much more easily achieved by other >>> means. A >>> >> few days ago on a thread about "weaponized" currencies, I wrote >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> The Rivalrous and the Anti-Rivalrous | Deep Code Experiment: Episode >>> 2 - >>> >>> Jordan Greenhall on a roll >>> >>> >>> >>> STIR (2013) - the key distinction is this. Some moneys are supposed >>> to >>> >>> be material in nature - and so are scarce, tokens of property. >>> There are >>> >>> other moneys that measure, and are not scarce at all. Currencies >>> that are >>> >>> based on scarcity are de facto competitive - pointed sticks at the >>> core. >>> >>> >>> >>> So the new crypto-currencies are most generally weaponized, and >>> that's no >>> >>> country for old men like me. My interest is in the dmz of money. >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> From where they look, this is all they are going to see. But it's >>> not all >>> >> there is. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 3:51 AM, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> I'd like to see a real life somewhat-populated with real people >>> >>> example of how this is supposed to work and what this is supposed to >>> >>> enable. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 4:01 AM, Michel Bauwens < >>> [email protected]> >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > This article from Dick Bryan is the first one bringing it all >>> together, >>> >>> > giving clear criterial for p2p/commons oriented crypto >>> developments, I >>> >>> > had >>> >>> > intuited some of them, but was not able to bring it all together >>> yet as >>> >>> > this >>> >>> > author has: >>> >>> > >>> >>> > https://medium.com/econaut/what-is-a-crypto-economy-155bdbc4ab1d >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Some criteria to look for (via Dick Bryan): >>> >>> > >>> >>> > 1. "Programmable organizations enable production to be organized >>> in a >>> >>> > way >>> >>> > that makes social criteria the rationale for production; not a >>> >>> > constraint on >>> >>> > it." >>> >>> > >>> >>> > [1] >>> >>> > >>> >>> > 2. "The rise of ‘networks’ as modes of corporate organization >>> breaks >>> >>> > down >>> >>> > the conventional means that differentiate one corporation from >>> another >>> >>> > and >>> >>> > challenges the principle of ‘competition’ as the driver of >>> corporate >>> >>> > rationale. These are both issues that feature prominently in >>> >>> > decentralized >>> >>> > applications." >>> >>> > >>> >>> > [2] >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > * 3. Mechanisms, like tokens, that allow surplus value to be >>> retained >>> >>> > by the >>> >>> > workers, not capital. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > " Changes in the nature of work (precarization, casualization, >>> >>> > subcontracting, the rise of the gig economy) see workers carrying >>> >>> > greater >>> >>> > risks and break down the attachment of work and living standards to >>> >>> > employment. There is growing interest in alternative ways of >>> organizing >>> >>> > work." [3] >>> >>> > >>> >>> > 4. "the real potential is cryptocurrencies as units of account: as >>> >>> > modes of >>> >>> > measuring economic activity that are conceived differently from >>> those >>> >>> > intrinsic to fiat money. Fiat money has become tied to conventional >>> >>> > framings >>> >>> > of profit and loss, income and expenditure, and a market-centred >>> >>> > calculus. >>> >>> > Non-fiat monies have the potential for developing new ways to >>> calculate >>> >>> > economic activity; ways that represent different social and >>> economic >>> >>> > values, >>> >>> > and measure performance by criteria other than profit. Think about >>> it >>> >>> > for a >>> >>> > moment. The unit of account potential signals the importance of the >>> >>> > crypto >>> >>> > economy developing ways (not a singular way, but coin-specific >>> ways) of >>> >>> > accounting and measuring the activities supported by each token. >>> We see >>> >>> > this >>> >>> > as central to giving tokens a material basis in the crypto >>> economy; not >>> >>> > just >>> >>> > leaving them as speculative stores of value. .... "Exchange is >>> often >>> >>> > between >>> >>> > parties of unequal power, so mutual gain cannot be presumed. An >>> >>> > important >>> >>> > issue of the crypto economy is how blockchain can and cannot >>> >>> > countermand >>> >>> > asymmetrical power in trade. We see blockchain not facilitating >>> >>> > frictionless >>> >>> > markets but rather frictionless capital: distributed capital." [4] >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > -- >>> >>> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - >>> >>> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: >>> >>> > http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-fou >>> ndation >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; >>> http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; >>> >>> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - >>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >>> > >>> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: >>> > http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation >>> > >>> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; >>> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >> >> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: >> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation >> >> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; >> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Arthur Brock - http://www.ArtBrock.com <http://www.artbrock.com/> > > You probably know me as that guy who talks about currencies, social > intelligence, agile learning, or culture hacking from: Holochain > <https://holochain.org/>, Ceptr <http://ceptr.org/>, or MetaCurrency > <http://metacurrency.org/> > -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
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