Please see my previous mail in http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/p2psip/current/msg05558.html
my key point here is RELOAD base and RELOAD usage are two aspects and make RELOAD base open for usage other than p2psip might better. Thanks, Gao =================================== Zip : 210012 Tel : 87211 Tel2 :(+86)-025-52877211 e_mail : [email protected] =================================== JeffreyHo <[email protected]> 发件人: [email protected] 2010-03-18 11:44 收件人 "'David A. Bryan'" <[email protected]> 抄送 [email protected], [email protected] 主题 Re: [P2PSIP] Is P2PSIP RELOAD not suitable to be leverage for bothP2P Live Streaming and VoD Service? -----来自 JeffreyHo <[email protected]> 的消息，在 Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:44:31 +0800 ----- 收件人: "'David A. Bryan'" <[email protected]> 抄送: <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> 主题: RE: [P2PSIP] Is P2PSIP RELOAD not suitable to be leverage for bothP2P Live Streaming and VoD Service? Actually, there is the same topic posted in the PPSP group. Please see http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/current/msg00552.html But there is not any discussion there. I think there is indeed a good bits of overlay of participants between P2PSIP and PPSP lists. Thanks. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David A. Bryan Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:15 AM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] Is P2PSIP RELOAD not suitable to be leverage for bothP2P Live Streaming and VoD Service? This isn't really the best list for a discussion about these topics, since the P2PSIP group isn't chartered right now to work on streaming or trackers. The best place is probably over on the PPSP list, rather than here. That is the group that is looking building streaming systems and trackers, and can certainly discuss if RELOAD is a good protocol choice for that application, while this group is currently only chartered to look at a protocol for DHTs for use with SIP. You are more likely to get the right folks for this discussion on that list (and of course there is a good bit of overlap of participants between the lists). David (as chair) 2010/3/17 Eric Rescorla <[email protected]> Yes, this is also out of scope for the WG. -Ekr 2010/3/17 <[email protected]> DHT/reload discussed here are used for build trackers of a streaming system, where the resources are chunk/piece of data other than users. Wang Russell Eric Rescorla <[email protected]> 2010-03-17 22:12 收件人 [email protected] 抄送 jc <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, [email protected] 主题 Re: [P2PSIP] 答复: Re: Is P2PSIP RELOAD not suitable to be leverage for both P2P Live Streaming and VoD Service? This all seems really off topic for this WG. The charter of P2PSIP explicitly excludes any work on this kind of media sharing: 1. Issues specific to applications other than locating users and resources for SIP-based communications and presence. -Ekr 2010/3/17 <[email protected]> I think whatever the centralized or distributed tracker you chose, if you must deal with billions of users's access, they're the same. The centralized tracker must be deployed in distributed or so-called 'cluster' mode, DHT is just one kind of distributed algorithm, not so special... And futhermore, the DHT algorithm does not always mean 'poor performance', we have implemented one kind of DHT algorithm suitable for stable network, its lookup cost is one hop(thousands nodes) or two hop(millions nodes), and the algorithm released as a plug-in of RELOAD protocol. The similar algorithm you can found in amazon's dynamo or the memcahce project, and there's also some other constant complexity DHT algorithm. Russell Wang jc <[email protected]> 发件人: [email protected] 2010-03-16 08:58 收件人 Bruce Lowekamp <[email protected]> 抄送 "[email protected]" <[email protected]> 主题 Re: [P2PSIP] Is P2PSIP RELOAD not suitable to be leverage for both P2P Live Streaming and VoD Service? The largest overlay i've seen where every node participated in storage and routing was ~1.6M. They operate best under ~650K. At about 1M the routing times get into the minutes. You would need to create and ad-hoc overlay for every stream. I've implemented a multicast layer that does this over a DHT. The DHT is the signaling layer used to setup these ad-hoc overlays(groups). RELOAD could perform the signaling, rendezvous setup, multicast grouping storage but not too much more. On Mar 15, 2010, at 8:10 PM, Bruce Lowekamp wrote: So substituting the terms used in RELOAD, this is exactly my point. draft-hu-ppsp-tracker-dht-performance-comparison assumes 20M peers, i.e. nodes used in routing, and bases latency calculations on that number. Not 57K. The draft further works out that with 20M peers storing data, each needs to store 0.01 of a resource. Even if you do the calculations with a reasonable number of peers (routing nodes), the dht overlay will still obviously have higher latency than a single-server based solution. You select a dht overlay for different reasons than you would select a central server-based solution. Bruce On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:27 PM, jc <[email protected]> wrote: You need 57,142.857 nodes to route 20M of peer traffic. This is the algorithm we used in fasttrack and is the same as in skype. This is a maximum capacity scenario. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 15, 2010, at 6:32 PM, Bruce Lowekamp <[email protected]> wrote: They scale fine, but there is a point beyond which adding additional peers to the overlay routing merely adds latency. Don't have time to look up the references now, but there are a number of papers discussing the advantages of different numbers of peers (superpeers in a lot of systems) needed for overlay routing. You don't need 10M. Bruce On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:55 AM, jc <[email protected]> wrote: On Mar 15, 2010, at 3:32 PM, Bruce Lowekamp wrote: The performance comparison draft compares the performance of a centralized lookup server with a P2P DHT system with 10M peers. Since those address entirely different use cases, and no one would ever deploy a 10M peer distributed tracker, it's not clear what the point of the comparison is. This has nothing to do with RELOAD. There are active distributed trackers w/ > 1M peers. Why would you not deploy a 10M user distributed tracker? They do inherently scale infinitely by nature. Bruce On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:55 AM, World <[email protected]> wrote: Dear all, I am thinking what P2P Live Streaming and VoD Service can leverage P2PSIP RELOAD. According to some research or proposal report, it seems that P2PSIP RELOAD can be used in P2P-based Tracker and/or chunk description distribution (chunk discovery) at the full distributed deployment. Both P2P-based Tracker and chunk description distribution over P2PSIP overlay were evaluated in performance referred to draft-chen-ppsp-dht-chunk-discovery-evaluation-00.txt and draft-hu-ppsp-tracker-dht-performance-comparison-01.txt. The result showed the performance of DHT-based Tracker and chunk description distribution is worse, even not acceptable for P2P Live Streaming and VoD Service. So can we make such conclusion that P2PSIP RELOAD is not suitable to be leverage for both P2P Live Streaming and VoD Service in case a full distributed deployment is not mandatory? What do you think? Any comments are welcome. Thanks. BR, Jeffrey _______________________________________________ P2PSIP mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip _______________________________________________ P2PSIP mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip _______________________________________________ P2PSIP mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 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