This isn't really the best list for a discussion about these topics, since the P2PSIP group isn't chartered right now to work on streaming or trackers. The best place is probably over on the PPSP list, rather than here. That is the group that is looking building streaming systems and trackers, and can certainly discuss if RELOAD is a good protocol choice for that application, while this group is currently only chartered to look at a protocol for DHTs for use with SIP. You are more likely to get the right folks for this discussion on that list (and of course there is a good bit of overlap of participants between the lists).
David (as chair) 2010/3/17 Eric Rescorla <[email protected]> > Yes, this is also out of scope for the WG. > > -Ekr > > > 2010/3/17 <[email protected]> > >> >> DHT/reload discussed here are used for build trackers of a streaming >> system, where the resources are chunk/piece of data other than users. >> >> >> Wang Russell >> >> >> >> *Eric Rescorla <[email protected]>* >> >> 2010-03-17 22:12 >> 收件人 >> [email protected] >> 抄送 >> jc <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, >> [email protected] >> 主题 >> Re: [P2PSIP] 答复: Re: Is P2PSIP RELOAD not suitable to be leverage for both >> P2P Live Streaming and VoD Service? >> >> >> >> >> This all seems really off topic for this WG. The charter of P2PSIP >> explicitly excludes >> any work on this kind of media sharing: >> >> >> 1. Issues specific to applications other than locating users and >> resources for SIP-based communications and presence. >> >> -Ekr >> >> >> 2010/3/17 <*[email protected]* <[email protected]>> >> >> I think whatever the centralized or distributed tracker you chose, >> if you must deal with billions of users's access, they're the same. The >> centralized tracker must be deployed in distributed or so-called 'cluster' >> mode, DHT is just one kind of distributed algorithm, not so special... >> And futhermore, the DHT algorithm does not always mean 'poor >> performance', we have implemented one kind of DHT algorithm suitable for >> stable network, its lookup cost is one hop(thousands nodes) or two >> hop(millions nodes), and the algorithm released as a plug-in of RELOAD >> protocol. >> The similar algorithm you can found in amazon's dynamo or the >> memcahce project, and there's also some other constant complexity DHT >> algorithm. >> >> >> >> Russell Wang >> >> >> >> *jc <**[email protected]* <[email protected]>*>* >> 发件人: *[email protected]* <[email protected]> >> >> 2010-03-16 08:58 >> >> 收件人 >> Bruce Lowekamp <*[email protected]* <[email protected]>> >> 抄送 >> "*[email protected]* <[email protected]>" <*[email protected]*<[email protected]> >> > >> 主题 >> Re: [P2PSIP] Is P2PSIP RELOAD not suitable to be leverage for both >> P2P Live Streaming and VoD Service? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The largest overlay i've seen where every node participated in storage and >> routing was ~1.6M. They operate best under ~650K. At about 1M the routing >> times get into the minutes. You would need to create and ad-hoc overlay for >> every stream. I've implemented a multicast layer that does this over a DHT. >> The DHT is the signaling layer used to setup these ad-hoc overlays(groups). >> RELOAD could perform the signaling, rendezvous setup, multicast grouping >> storage but not too much more. >> >> On Mar 15, 2010, at 8:10 PM, Bruce Lowekamp wrote: >> >> So substituting the terms used in RELOAD, this is exactly my point. >> draft-hu-ppsp-tracker-dht-performance-comparison assumes 20M peers, i.e. >> nodes used in routing, and bases latency calculations on that number. Not >> 57K. The draft further works out that with 20M peers storing data, each >> needs to store 0.01 of a resource. >> >> Even if you do the calculations with a reasonable number of peers (routing >> nodes), the dht overlay will still obviously have higher latency than a >> single-server based solution. You select a dht overlay for different >> reasons than you would select a central server-based solution. >> >> Bruce >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:27 PM, jc >> <*[email protected]*<[email protected]>> >> wrote: >> You need 57,142.857 nodes to route 20M of peer traffic. This is the >> algorithm we used in fasttrack and is the same as in skype. This is a >> maximum capacity scenario. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Mar 15, 2010, at 6:32 PM, Bruce Lowekamp >> <*[email protected]*<[email protected]>> >> wrote: >> >> They scale fine, but there is a point beyond which adding additional peers >> to the overlay routing merely adds latency. Don't have time to look up the >> references now, but there are a number of papers discussing the advantages >> of different numbers of peers (superpeers in a lot of systems) needed for >> overlay routing. You don't need 10M. >> >> Bruce >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:55 AM, jc < <[email protected]>* >> [email protected]* <[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> On Mar 15, 2010, at 3:32 PM, Bruce Lowekamp wrote: >> >> The performance comparison draft compares the performance of a centralized >> lookup server with a P2P DHT system with 10M peers. Since those address >> entirely different use cases, and no one would ever deploy a 10M peer >> distributed tracker, it's not clear what the point of the comparison is. >> This has nothing to do with RELOAD. >> >> There are active distributed trackers w/ > 1M peers. Why would you not >> deploy a 10M user distributed tracker? They do inherently scale infinitely >> by nature. >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:55 AM, World < <[email protected]>* >> [email protected]* <[email protected]>> wrote: Dear all, >> >> I am thinking what P2P Live Streaming and VoD Service can leverage P2PSIP >> RELOAD. According to some research or proposal report, it seems that P2PSIP >> RELOAD can be used in P2P-based Tracker and/or chunk description >> distribution (chunk discovery) at the full distributed deployment. Both >> P2P-based Tracker and chunk description distribution over P2PSIP overlay >> were evaluated in performance referred to >> draft-chen-ppsp-dht-chunk-discovery-evaluation-00.txt and >> draft-hu-ppsp-tracker-dht-performance-comparison-01.txt. The result showed >> the performance of DHT-based Tracker and chunk description distribution is >> worse, even not acceptable for P2P Live Streaming and VoD Service. >> >> So can we make such conclusion that P2PSIP RELOAD is not suitable to be >> leverage for both P2P Live Streaming and VoD Service in case a full >> distributed deployment is not mandatory? What do you think? >> >> Any comments are welcome. Thanks. >> >> BR, >> Jeffrey >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> P2PSIP mailing list* >> * <[email protected]>*[email protected]* <[email protected]>* >> * <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip>* >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip*<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> P2PSIP mailing list* >> * <[email protected]>*[email protected]* <[email protected]>* >> * <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip>* >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip*<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> P2PSIP mailing list* >> **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* >> **https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip*<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is >> solely property of the sender's organization. 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