On 2/13/2011 1:51 AM, Gabor Szabo wrote:
>
> thanks for your response! It is very valuable to us.
>
> On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 9:30 PM, chm<devel.chm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2/12/2011 10:09 AM, Claudio Ramirez wrote:
>>>
>>> I spent some time reading the mailing list and irc logs. Because of the
>>> distributed nature of the communications channels, the discussion is
>>> difficult to follow if you are not at the right time in the right place.
>
>>
>> Yes, especially if one is not part of IRC discussions.
>
> I know it is not easy but you can actually follow the IRC
> channel via its public log: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/padre/today
Thanks for the URL. This is the kind of information
that needs to be easily found on the Padre web site.
I also noticed that I first clicked on Developers
(after all, that is what I wanted to do) but that
page is actually "Who we are" or "Contributors" or
"The Team" and I had to click to "getting involved"
from there which apparently took me to same URL as
the top menu for "Get Involved".
[I just found the Padre trac link from "pages for
Padre developers" on the Download page. It appears
to provide the above information but I was surprised
to find the link and I don't think I would be able
to find it again without a direct link or bookmark]
>>> Several developers feel that Padre is at a point where some stability is
>
>>> expected. While this is extremely good news for a young project like
>>> ours, it also means that "fast moving target" releases from the
>>> beginning are --or should be-- behind us: users rely on our project to
>>> do their work.
>>
>> I am one of the users who could try Padre but hasn't
>> yet for several reasons including:
>>
>> (1) My main platform is cygwin and I have not
>> been able to install Padre for that platform.
>> I'm not motivated to learn a new IDE for only
>> a subset of my perl usage platforms
>
> I don't recall seeing your failure reports. AFAIK currently none of the Padre
> developers is using cygwin so it would be very useful if you could describe
> your
> attempts to install Padre and what went wrong.
> In general I think there are two main issues with Padre:
> 1) You need a threaded Perl, this needs to return some true value:
> perl -MConfig -e' print "$Config{usethreads}\n" '
> 2) You need to install Alien::wxWidgets and Wx
> I don't know if wxWidgets can be installed on Cygwin.
Did not mean to dodge any work here but was
stating why I was not trying Padre.
Most of my "developer time" is spent on PDL and
the related modules where I'm trying to get it
to work on win32 (actually PDL core works just
fine, it is all the external "unix-ish"
dependencies that are the sticking point on
win32).
Until things free up enough for me to work on
porting Padre to cygwin, I keep monitoring the
developers list, checking the web site for
status changes or updates that make it easy
or compelling to try Padre again.
> Someone on the list might be able to help you further.
>
> Please open a separate e-mail thread for this and use a title
> including Cygwin.
>
>
>> (2) If the basic architecture and structure of
>> Padre is in constant flux: working, not working,
>> changing user interface, unclear or out of date
>> documentation, that is a barrier to potential
>> new Padre users.
>
> The situation is not THAT bad. Maybe except of
> documentation where we really lack. In general there
> are not THAT many changes but they still create noise.
Unfortunately, out of sync or out of date
documentation really can degrade the external
perception of a project. I found your links
on OSS community building very informative.
Last year we had a volunteer who reworked the PDL
web page at http://pdl.perl.org and I think the
new presentation has helped the visibility and
utility of PDL for users and developers.
From another thread, it appears that a rework of
the Padre web site may already be underway.
Good!
>> (3) The "quick start" options to get Padre up on
>> the web page seem to be out of date and/or
>> incomplete.
>>
>> The two things that would most help me try/use/develop
>> with/for Padre include:
>>
>> (1) up to date, simple installs of the latest Padre
>> (1-click or less :-) for all the Perl platforms
>> (win32, *ix, macosx, cygwin),
>
> I think we all agree on this and we have been struggling with a solution
> since the inception of the project with various levels of success.
> We'll see the recently released CitrusPerl will be a good solution for
> at least Win32/Mac/Linux.
Look forward to trying things out as I can.
>> (2) up to date, clear and directly accessible docs
>> from the Padre web page
>>
>> A side benefit of the very easy install availability
>> is that the fact that Padre is still growing and
>> evolving would not be as much of an obstacle for
>> folks to try it along the way. Once it was clear
>> that Padre evolution had slowed and that growth
>> and maturing was mostly happening, that would be
>> the time for introducing a "stable" branch.
>
> It seems development have slowed down in the past few month and is
> coming in waves.
As a contrast, PDL was developed as a tool for
researchers to use and we have to be careful to
maintain back compatibility so that users' code
will not break. You'll need to make the call
as to when Padre has reached some 1.0 level of
stability that is sustainable with development.
Thanks for the thoughts,
Chris
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