Yes. A rapid expansion and collapse of air pressure would most definitely be inseparable causes.
~Kyle On Wed, Feb 6, 2008 at 10:30 AM, Andy Farnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Yes. That's part of it. > > According to Ribner and Roys first paper the vacuum collapse model > is refuted - well, they don't use that exact word - more like > they suggest it is replaced... > > "As recently as the late 1800's, four theories of thunder were in > competition: > The vacuum collapse theory, the explosive electrolysis theory (recombination > of electrolyzed water), the steam expansion theory, and the Ohmic heating > theory (resistive heating and consequent expansion due to heavy current > discharge). The last, proposed by M. Hirn in 1888, is now accepted, being > supported by a large body of consistent experimental data and theory." > > However I disagree, since it is one necessary flip side of the favoured > primary cause - collapse happens after the expansion (in a remarkably > short time frame) Therefore the vacuum collapse theory must be incorporated > into a complete model, being responsible for the negative impulse of the > N-wave. > > "One prevailing theory proposed that thunder was produced when lightning, > passing through the air, caused a vacuum to form. When this vacuum collapsed, > the air rapidly rushing back in produced a thunderous explosion." > > http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/elements/thunder1.htm > > As I see, the unipolar vacuum collapse theory only makes sense, if there > is a chemical reaction that removes CO2, H2O, O2 or N2 from the atmosphere, > (and one assumes no matter is transformed to energy) - well NO2 and O3 > are produced, but that doesn't account for the volume. > > Vacuum collapse theory ?? (< 1800) > Steam theory of R.V. Reynolds (1903) > Electrolysis theory R.S. Mershon (1870) > Ohmic heating theory M. Hirn in 1888 > > In a 1888 article in Scientific American, M. Hirn advanced the theory that > > "thunder is due simply to the fact that the air traversed by an electrical > spark, that is, a flash of lightning, is suddenly raised to a very high > temperature, and has its volume, moreover, considerably increased. The > column of gas thus suddenly heated and expanded is sometimes several miles > long, and as the duration of the flash is not even a millionth of a second, > it follows that the noise burst forth at once from the whole column, though > for a observer in any one place it commences where the lightning is at the > least distance....the beginning of the thunderclap gives us the minimum > distance of the lightning, and the length of the thunder clap gives us the > length of the column." > > So, in summary, there is no single cause and all these theories > are sensibly incorporated into the process. > > Least likely is perhaps Mershon - but in a plasma we know the gasses > are monatomic and there is still a lot of stuff to be discovered in > plasma physics, so he may have been on to something after all. > > Reynolds clearly contributes something sensible, because water vapour > has the highest thermal expansive coefficient. > > And the vacuum collapse theory _must_ be incorporated if the Ohmic > expansion theory holds. > > a. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 16:00:58 +0100 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Plessas) wrote: > > > * Andy Farnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-02-05 23:33]: > > > > > > > > > You're spot on there. I will develop the stereo image as I work on > > > the environment model. > > > > > > But interestingly enough, lightning _is_ an explosion, one hell of > > > a big explosion. The plasma is as hot as the Sun for an instant and > > > that's why the air expands, the energy in a lightning bold makes most > > > bombs seem like little fireworks. The difference is, and this is > > > unusual, it radiates in a cylinder not a sphere, and sound comes > > > from a simultanoeus extent (because the bolt moves at the speed of > > > electricity which is closer to the speed of light than the speed of > > > sound) > > > > Isn't the noise happening when the light/plasma channel is collapsing > > after the lightning happened? > > > > regards, Peter > > > > _______________________________________________ > > [email protected] mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > -- > Use the source > > > > _______________________________________________ > [email protected] mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- ----- ------------ ---- ----- ---- -------- - ------ http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com http://myspace.com/kyleklipowicz _______________________________________________ [email protected] mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
