>________________________________ > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <[email protected]> >To: Jonathan Wilkes <[email protected]> >Cc: Ivica Ico Bukvic <[email protected]>; 'pd-list' <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 11:53 AM >Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-L2ork Features > > >That's nice for people who are used to doing that from Max/MSP. I've never >found a reason to want that feature, so I haven't implemented it. Can someone >explain how they use it?
You partly answered your own question. Another reason is if you are mucking around in the source you can just copy-paste it into a new patch instead of closing, opening the file selector and choosing that file again. Another reason is you can select the code off the browser and immediately play with a patch off svn instead of saving it to a location and opening it. Another reason is that you can throw text up on a pastebin for people who you don't necessarily have an email address for (e.g., on IRC), and they can paste it into a new patch instead of copy-pasting it into a text editor, choosing save, choosing a save location, choosing "Open" in Pd, navigating to that same location where they saved it, selecting it, and eventually deleting the patch when their download directory is full of junk. -Jonathan > >.hc > >On 12/13/2012 04:28 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: >> Here's one I forgot about: pasting Pd source code into a patch: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K57yeLY4Mk >> >> Somewhere in my Gnome->Openshot->Youtube toolchain I have a bug that >> speeds up the second half of the video, but it's still comprehensible. >> >> >> -Jonathan >> >> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Jonathan Wilkes <[email protected]> >>> To: Ivica Ico Bukvic <[email protected]>; 'Hans-Christoph Steiner' >>> <[email protected]> >>> Cc: 'pd-list' <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 2:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-L2ork Features >>> >>> This may be a little off topic, but I'd be very curious to see what >>> "pure Pd'ers"-- meaning people coding only in Pd and not c-- >>> could come up with for a "tidy up" algorithm. In other words, >>> if "tidy up" just sent a list of the selected objects to a >>> PDMENU_TIDYUP receiver, what would the Pd community >>> come up with to make a sophisticated algorithm to tidy >>> up the patch? >>> >>> I think the same thing about Properties Dialogs being built in >>> Pd, as well as the Pd console, audio dialogs, etc. It's a sign of >>> good faith as to the expressivity of the language, just like when >>> you open a help patch and its just another Pd patch-- Pd helps >>> itself. :) >>> >>> That's one of the reasons why I kept inquiring about presets >>> storing the state as args appended in the container abstraction, >>> because that would make it possible to have a properties dialog >>> without using externals. However the more I think about it the >>> preset api is probably overkill for doing that. >>> >>> >>> -Jonathan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: Ivica Ico Bukvic <[email protected]> >>>> To: 'Hans-Christoph Steiner' <[email protected]> >>>> Cc: 'Jonathan Wilkes' <[email protected]>; 'pd-list' <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:04 PM >>>> Subject: RE: [PD] Pd-L2ork Features >>>> >>>> >>>> Here’s a very simple yet dubious example of tidy not doing absolutely >>>> anything with only 3 objects on screen (using select all, no less). I >>>> would hardly call this “handling it OK”… >>>> >>>> There is certainly room for both (as is the case with Max) but at least in >>>> pd-l2ork you have one that works reliably as opposed to one that is >>>> entirely uncertain (or as is the case in the attached example, not at all). >>>> >>>> From:Hans-Christoph Steiner [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:45 PM >>>> To: Ivica Bukvic >>>> Cc: Jonathan Wilkes; pd-list >>>> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-L2ork Features >>>> >>>> >>>> Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the bad behavior of the vanilla >>>> tidy. I'm just saying it never does anything drastic or scary, or at >>>> least I've never seen it do that. It should be possible to make an >>>> algorithm that has the good features of both. >>>> >>>> .hc >>>> >>>> On Dec 11, 2012, at 8:39 PM, Ivica Bukvic wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I beg to differ. There are numerous examples where one would select only a >>>> few objects and wanted to have them lined up and the regular tidy >>>> algorithm was unable to do anything about it. In most cases objects did >>>> not move at all with no explanation to the user as to why things didn't >>>> work out. >>>> Yes, there are two case scenarios. The old tidy can sometimes clean up the >>>> patch to an extent which may or may not work out. The new tidy algorithm >>>> in pd-l2ork does not aim to do the same thing. It deals with objects are >>>> currently selected and lines and first up and then on the second press >>>> spaces them evenly out. The key difference between the two is that it is >>>> predictable and works every time unlike the old algorithm, which works >>>> only sometimes, and even then does not take into account preexisting >>>> human-centric arrangement of patch-cords. >>>> On Dec 11, 2012 7:47 PM, "Hans-Christoph Steiner" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> The vanilla tidy algorithm handled this one OK, but normally its not very >>>> helpful. I think getting this kind of thing right means gathering a wide >>>> range of examples and edge cases and tweaking it until they all work OK. >>>> >>>> One thing that might be worthwhile for anyone who has a copy of Max/MSP is >>>> to play around with their tidy algorithm. I think they put a lot of work >>>> into it, so it would give you an idea of what's possible. >>>> >>>> IMHO, the l2ork algorithm is probably workable as is, but even with full >>>> undo, lots of people will be unhappy to see their patch collapse into a >>>> single line. >>>> >>>> .hc >>>> >>>> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: >>>> >>>>> I guess there are two questions: >>>>> 1) How does tidy decide to line up the selected objects in a column vs. a >>>>> row? >>>>> 2) How smart can "tidy up" actually be? For example in Hans >>>>> screencapture I >>>>> see three columns of offset objects, but maybe other people see a >>>>> different pattern. >>>>> >>>>> I guess as long as it works ok for a majority of cases, there's alway >>>>> infinite undo. >>>>> Plus I might be able to get my columns by selecting the objects for each >>>>> column >>>>> at a time, and tidying each column separately. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> But perhaps if "tidy up" would end up moving an object onto another >>>>> object it should >>>>> offset the one being moved (like it does if two objects are sitting >>>>> directly on top of >>>>> each other before tidying). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -Jonathan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: Ivica Ico Bukvic <[email protected]> >>>>>> To: Hans-Christoph Steiner <[email protected]> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:51 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-L2ork Features >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Just tried it here and it works just fine with bunch of lengthy >>>>>> comments. The trick is first Ctrl+Y lines it up across an axis, the >>>>>> second one spaces it out evenly. So, I think the only thing you didn't >>>>>> do was press it twice (AFAICT from the screenshot). >>>>>> >>>>>> On 12/11/2012 04:49 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you tested this on pd-l2ork since it calculates width differently >>>>>> than pd-extended might? Can you send the example patch? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/11/2012 04:32 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nice videos, the GUI and GOP handles are great. I like the improved >>>>>>> tidy-up. I was messing around with it, the problem is that while is >>>>>>> does seem to work better in cases like you showed, but it seems to have >>>>>>> bad edge cases. Here's an example of the results of running it on a >>>>>>> random patch I had on my desktop and compared to the vanilla result: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> .hc On Dec 11, 2012, at 3:42 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: >>>>>>>> Hello, I thought I'd post some of the recent changes in Pd-L2ork. >>>>>>>> Here are some: iemgui anchors: >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SM1hiz9S5U&feature=plcp gop anchor: >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMu5JcKE1sU&feature=plcp improved tidy-up: >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms5yOvgoK_Q&feature=plcp array update >>>>> notification: >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1HbYrvNxEg&feature=plcp move to >>>>> front/back: >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af9KiJfSp68&feature=plcp infinite undo >>>>> (with lyrical Pd accompaniment!): >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTPZxcgWoI0&feature=plcp from the most >>>>> recent git commits, presets: >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS7_x727kZ4&feature=plcp The presets video >>>>> unfortunately speeds up in the middle for >>>>> some unknown reason. In that part it shows how I can >>>>> copy/paste an abstraction and that instance gets its own state >>>>> associated with it, which is stored with the preset_hub. -Jonathan >>>>> _______________________________________________ [email protected] mailing >>>>> list >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ [email protected] mailing >>>>>>>> list >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A >>>>> Composition, Music Technology >>>>> Director, DISIS Interactive Sound & Intermedia Studio >>>>> Director, L2Ork Linux Laptop Orchestra >>>>> Head, ICAT IMPACT Studio >>>>> Virginia Tech >>>>> Department of Music >>>>> Blacksburg, VA 24061-0240 >>>>> (540) 231-6139 >>>>> (540) 231-5034 (fax) disis.music.vt.edu l2ork.music.vt.edu ico.bukvic.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A >>>>> Composition, Music Technology >>>>> Director, DISIS Interactive Sound & Intermedia Studio >>>>> Director, L2Ork Linux Laptop Orchestra >>>>> Head, ICAT IMPACT Studio >>>>> Virginia Tech >>>>> Department of Music >>>>> Blacksburg, VA 24061-0240 >>>>> (540) 231-6139 >>>>> (540) 231-5034 (fax) >>>>> disis.music.vt.edu >>>>> l2ork.music.vt.edu >>>>> ico.bukvic.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> [email protected] mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>> >>> >>> > > > _______________________________________________ [email protected] mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
