Yes, this is great news. I didn't mean to sound pessimistic earlier, just 
realistic.

My 2cents, though is that the l2ork website is hard to navigate :D

On Sep 23, 2014, at 11:54 AM, Ivica Bukvic <[email protected]> wrote:

> Well, there is a concerted effort on the pd-l2ork side of things. We now 
> technically have 3 devs contributing code regularly to git and 3 additional 
> contributors.
> 
> On Sep 23, 2014 11:14 AM, "Dan Wilcox" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I had to bring up semantics because "developer" means alot of different 
> things to alot of different people.
> 
> Also, I didn't want to bring up vanilla versus non-vanilla, just pointing out 
> that the number of people who could help Hans put out a new version of 
> extended is rather low. IMO a languishing extended is bad news for Pd in 
> general as it's the go to distribution for most people using Pd ... but 
> that's probably for another debate. We all work on what's important to us, 
> I'm just sad again to see that the priorities don't seem to match up with a 
> concerted joint effort, at least as compared to my experience working with 
> OpenFrameworks. But of course what's considered a "concerted, joint effort" 
> is also up to interpretation :D
> 
> Hopefully we'll have a development meet up at some point soon.
> 
> I personally feel guilty seeing things like this come up because I have the 
> *ability* to do it, but I don't have the time when trying to balance life, 
> work, & art. Honestly, this is when I know I'm probably getting in too deep 
> ...
> 
> This is why I suggested "graduate students". At this point, up keep and 
> versioning should be supported by some sort of institution, if possible, and 
> by people who could be rotated in and out.
> 
> On Sep 23, 2014, at 10:57 AM, Ivica Bukvic <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> Well, I guess you can call me a "developer," whatever that means--I don't 
>> care that much about titles. Yet, I would argue that as far as low level 
>> stuff is concerned in recent years pd-l2ork has certainly pushed the 
>> envelope in terms of core development. Even the feature that has earned me 
>> the title in quotations delves so deep into the core that currently it 
>> cannot be implemented in either vanilla or extended without significant 
>> changes even though it retains full backwards compatibility. I would also 
>> argue it is essential and offers a slew of features that are unavailable in 
>> any other implementation of presets.
>> 
>> Pd-l2ork's greatest deterrent is exclusivity to Linux, which was initially a 
>> conscious decision to allow for faster development while addressing the lack 
>> of manpower. But that is about to change once we complete port to Qt 
>> library. We already transitioned to Tkpath quite a while ago which allowed 
>> us to use a full SVG-based canvas, so I have no doubt we will be able to do 
>> this again. Once this is done, we won't have to circumnavigate exceptions Tk 
>> library requires in order to be compliant with different platforms and I 
>> would argue in turn that will result in faster development. So, if you are 
>> really interested in pushing the development of non-vanilla pd I think you 
>> should heed some of Jonathan's advice and look for ways how community can 
>> work together in combining the "best of" and engaging developers and 
>> "developers" alike who have shown dedication to the cause. But before that 
>> can be accomplished, the community should consider agreeing on design 
>> choices. For instance, pd-l2ork came into existence because it focuses on 
>> more nimble development at the expense of potential loss of backwards 
>> compatibility (even though after 4 years of development the only 
>> incompatibility we infatuated is correcting buggy positioning of iemgui  
>> objects, which is cosmetic in nature) because a good chunk of that 
>> compatibility stems from buggy implementations that stuck around long enough 
>> that they became a part of the standard (e.g. iemgui's buggy positioning of 
>> objects that are arbitrarily offset from their x and y positions, as 
>> reported by the pd script), which is unfortunate.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Ico
>> 
>> On Sep 23, 2014 9:21 AM, "Dan Wilcox" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I disagree. Your example lists what? 2 more developers? I'm talking about 
>> "developers" as in people working the C code, build scripts, tcl/tk etc aka 
>> people who could, theoretically, help push out a new Pd-extended release. 
>> True, we have plenty of people working on externals, but this is a problem 
>> for someone who can go deeper.
>> 
>> I still maintain that the number of low level developers to overall users 
>> (non-developers) is relatively low.
>> 
>> On Sep 23, 2014, at 6:00 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> 
>>> However, your description of the user/developer ratio doesn't ring true to 
>>> me.  There's actually a surplus of developers and development energy-- I 
>>> count two implementations of presets in the last year or two (in Pd-l2ork 
>>> and the Chocolate et Coffee lib) which are in addition to however many 
>>> already exist on svn and the Pd forum.
>> 
>> --------
>> Dan Wilcox
>> @danomatika
>> danomatika.com
>> robotcowboy.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> --------
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

--------
Dan Wilcox
@danomatika
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com





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