Yeah, sure. I think I meant more that you could utilize the pure-data.info site directly for all the pd-l2ork build/install info and download hosting and keep the current l2ork site for the ensemble.
Anyway, just an idea :D In any case, pd-L2ork IMO needs a space to it's own, especially if you expand to more platforms & build/install info. My original criticism was more that there isn't a pd-l2ork section, it's listed under "Join the L2orkmania" -> "Software". On Sep 23, 2014, at 1:22 PM, Ivica Bukvic <[email protected]> wrote: > It is already linked from that site. > > On Sep 23, 2014 12:27 PM, "Dan Wilcox" <[email protected]> wrote: > Maybe the software portal could be a subdomain or integrated on the > pure-data.info site along with vanilla & extended. > > On Sep 23, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Ivica Bukvic <[email protected]> wrote: > >> True. It is trying to be to many things-- an ensemble and a software portal. >> >> On Sep 23, 2014 12:04 PM, "Dan Wilcox" <[email protected]> wrote: >> Yes, this is great news. I didn't mean to sound pessimistic earlier, just >> realistic. >> >> My 2cents, though is that the l2ork website is hard to navigate :D >> >> On Sep 23, 2014, at 11:54 AM, Ivica Bukvic <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Well, there is a concerted effort on the pd-l2ork side of things. We now >>> technically have 3 devs contributing code regularly to git and 3 additional >>> contributors. >>> >>> On Sep 23, 2014 11:14 AM, "Dan Wilcox" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I had to bring up semantics because "developer" means alot of different >>> things to alot of different people. >>> >>> Also, I didn't want to bring up vanilla versus non-vanilla, just pointing >>> out that the number of people who could help Hans put out a new version of >>> extended is rather low. IMO a languishing extended is bad news for Pd in >>> general as it's the go to distribution for most people using Pd ... but >>> that's probably for another debate. We all work on what's important to us, >>> I'm just sad again to see that the priorities don't seem to match up with a >>> concerted joint effort, at least as compared to my experience working with >>> OpenFrameworks. But of course what's considered a "concerted, joint effort" >>> is also up to interpretation :D >>> >>> Hopefully we'll have a development meet up at some point soon. >>> >>> I personally feel guilty seeing things like this come up because I have the >>> *ability* to do it, but I don't have the time when trying to balance life, >>> work, & art. Honestly, this is when I know I'm probably getting in too deep >>> ... >>> >>> This is why I suggested "graduate students". At this point, up keep and >>> versioning should be supported by some sort of institution, if possible, >>> and by people who could be rotated in and out. >>> >>> On Sep 23, 2014, at 10:57 AM, Ivica Bukvic <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Well, I guess you can call me a "developer," whatever that means--I don't >>>> care that much about titles. Yet, I would argue that as far as low level >>>> stuff is concerned in recent years pd-l2ork has certainly pushed the >>>> envelope in terms of core development. Even the feature that has earned me >>>> the title in quotations delves so deep into the core that currently it >>>> cannot be implemented in either vanilla or extended without significant >>>> changes even though it retains full backwards compatibility. I would also >>>> argue it is essential and offers a slew of features that are unavailable >>>> in any other implementation of presets. >>>> >>>> Pd-l2ork's greatest deterrent is exclusivity to Linux, which was initially >>>> a conscious decision to allow for faster development while addressing the >>>> lack of manpower. But that is about to change once we complete port to Qt >>>> library. We already transitioned to Tkpath quite a while ago which allowed >>>> us to use a full SVG-based canvas, so I have no doubt we will be able to >>>> do this again. Once this is done, we won't have to circumnavigate >>>> exceptions Tk library requires in order to be compliant with different >>>> platforms and I would argue in turn that will result in faster >>>> development. So, if you are really interested in pushing the development >>>> of non-vanilla pd I think you should heed some of Jonathan's advice and >>>> look for ways how community can work together in combining the "best of" >>>> and engaging developers and "developers" alike who have shown dedication >>>> to the cause. But before that can be accomplished, the community should >>>> consider agreeing on design choices. For instance, pd-l2ork came into >>>> existence because it focuses on more nimble development at the expense of >>>> potential loss of backwards compatibility (even though after 4 years of >>>> development the only incompatibility we infatuated is correcting buggy >>>> positioning of iemgui objects, which is cosmetic in nature) because a >>>> good chunk of that compatibility stems from buggy implementations that >>>> stuck around long enough that they became a part of the standard (e.g. >>>> iemgui's buggy positioning of objects that are arbitrarily offset from >>>> their x and y positions, as reported by the pd script), which is >>>> unfortunate. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Ico >>>> >>>> On Sep 23, 2014 9:21 AM, "Dan Wilcox" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> I disagree. Your example lists what? 2 more developers? I'm talking about >>>> "developers" as in people working the C code, build scripts, tcl/tk etc >>>> aka people who could, theoretically, help push out a new Pd-extended >>>> release. True, we have plenty of people working on externals, but this is >>>> a problem for someone who can go deeper. >>>> >>>> I still maintain that the number of low level developers to overall users >>>> (non-developers) is relatively low. >>>> >>>> On Sep 23, 2014, at 6:00 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>>> >>>>> However, your description of the user/developer ratio doesn't ring true >>>>> to me. There's actually a surplus of developers and development energy-- >>>>> I count two implementations of presets in the last year or two (in >>>>> Pd-l2ork and the Chocolate et Coffee lib) which are in addition to >>>>> however many already exist on svn and the Pd forum. >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> Dan Wilcox >>>> @danomatika >>>> danomatika.com >>>> robotcowboy.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> [email protected] mailing list >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>> >>> >>> -------- >>> Dan Wilcox >>> @danomatika >>> danomatika.com >>> robotcowboy.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -------- >> Dan Wilcox >> @danomatika >> danomatika.com >> robotcowboy.com >> >> >> >> >> > > -------- > Dan Wilcox > @danomatika > danomatika.com > robotcowboy.com > > > > > -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
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