Hi Joao,Those features won't be available in Pd-extended-- the GUI part depends
on a library called tkpath which Pd-extended doesn't use.
The tentative plan is to port Pd-l2ork's GUI to Qt, leveraging QGraphicsview or
QML. The features I've added should be common to any modern 2d API that does
"managed" graphics. That includes Qt, SVG, probably GTK as well, but
unfortunately not Tk.
-Jonathan
On Friday, November 28, 2014 5:28 PM, João Pais <jmmmp...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
#yiv8787092339 body {font-size:13px;}Hello,
I haven't been using Pd regularly for a while now. But as I remember, the
biggest disadvantage of data structures isn't really that they're "buggy" (i.e.
have some issues that usually don't happen in other pd objects, as Jonathan
listed), but that there are very few possibleoperations. Any patching requires
lots of work to do things that on other parts of Pd happen very easily. Looking
at the ftm library, could be a way of a goal of what could be done using data
structues (not even to mention the audio part).
Also, because of the gui issues, data structures can't really be relied upon
for non-slow (i.e. medium and fast) graphics. It just takes lots of cpu (at
least it does on my windows machines).
There is also the steep learning curve, but I've seen gradually more people
working with them, so that generates a positive loop. I don't know if my
tutorial helped much (based on the ones of F Barknecht and G Karman), but every
step counts.One can also have a look at my abstractions in extra/jmmmp, several
of them are made with data structures - including [matrixctrl], quite useful as
a gui for [iemmatrix/mtx_mul~].(btw, I was just trying to upload my tutorial to
puredata.info, but the website gave an error. I'll keep trying)
Jonathan, when will your new features be available in Pd Extended? I could try
to update my tutorial with them. I'm not using linux anymore, so I won't be
working with pdl2ork.
Best,
Joao
On 11/23/2014 11:26 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
don't even remember cause I stopped messing with it because of them, but I did
discuss about them sometime ago here on the list, with joão pais, the bottom
line is that they were indeed buggy like that and that you had to cope with it.
Well, there are a few areas I can think of:
1) changing contents of [struct] when you have scalars in a canvas. Pd goes
through and conforms the scalars to the new [struct] definition, but the old
definition sticks around, too. This seems to cause problems in some cases, and
possibly crashes when you have array fields inside the [struct]-- especially if
you make changes to the [struct] for that array.
2) scalars inside a gop. These are prone to all kinds of weirdness, though
it's unclear what constitutes a bug here:
* there's a red gop rectangle for putting objects which you want to show up on
the parent, but scalars get scaled and displaced as a function of subpatch's
window dimensions and x/y ranges/sizes. This makes it difficult to tell where
the scalar will appear inside the gop, as well as blasting the scalar off into
the nether regions of the subpatch if you decide to turn on gop.
* iemguis outside of the gop rectangle won't show up, but scalars will
* while the gop rectangle does not affect the appearance of a scalar, it
_does_ affect the scalar's widgetbehavior. Thus you can click a scalar only if
it's within the gop boundaries. You can drag a scalar outside of the
boundaries, but once you release the button you can't drag it back. (Same with
a "Put" menu array.)
* text appearance is limited by tk canvas implementation. So the x/y units
setting of a gop canvas will affect polygon appearance, but the text itself
won't rescale at all.
* canvas "clear" method clears out the gop settings (at least I think it
does). The "coords" and "donecanvasdialog" methods take an enormous list of
positional arguments that are impossible to remember
* x/y margins apparently have no effect on scalars, although Pd lets you set
them
It's difficult to figure out how to make that scalar behavior in gops more
sensible. It's tricky because gop currently acts like a "viewport" somewhat in
the svg or opengl sense, yet it doesn't clip or even respect the "size"
attributes if the subpatch is open. "Put" menu array sizing and [table]
widgetbehavior are affected by this, so if scalar gop appearance were
simplified then garrays would have to be decoupled from that behavior.
-Jonathan
cheers
2014-11-17 2:50 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes <jancs...@yahoo.com>:
On 11/16/2014 10:55 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
my two cents is that the data structures are still a bit buggy to work on.
Just hoped they'd be more stable, other than that, can't relate to the
commotion, cheers
What kinds of bugs are you running into?
-Jonathan
2014-11-13 13:45 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <pd-list@lists.iem.at>:
It's certainly possible. There's a Pd-l2ork script for creating a "vanilla"
tarball with the l2ork changes in it, so I guess you could try dropping the src
and extra from that into libpd's pure-data directory and see what happens.
But I don't know much about libpd.
-Jonathan
On Thursday, November 13, 2014 4:38 AM, i go bananas
<hard....@gmail.com> wrote:
in relation to Pd-l2ork,
guys, what's the status of having a 'libpd' for l2ork??? is that possible?
sorry for going off topic...but it is something i have wanted to ask for
ages.
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 6:33 PM, i go bananas <hard....@gmail.com> wrote:
IOhannes,
that's kinda what i thought....
but really, come on...pd's interface is it's weakest point. When miller
started working on the data structures, libpd and all that didn't even exist.
But now, we can just farm out that sort of stuff to other programs.
Compared to the amount of effort it takes to learn them, and how effective
they actually are, data structures are just too un-economical.
in nearly 15 years of their existence, i think i can still count on both
hands how many good implementations of them i have seen.
look, i LOVE pd and couldn't live without it....but it just seems like any
minute spent on data structures is a minute that could be way better spent on
other stuff.
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 3:54 AM, IOhannes m zmölnig <zmoel...@iem.at> wrote:
On 11/12/2014 03:33 PM, i go bananas wrote:
>
> couldn't that work be put to better use?
>
depends on your definition of "better".
if i understand correctly, "data structures" have been _the_ motivation
for writing Pd (as opposed to continue with max), so i think we owe them :-)
gfmrdsa
IOhannes
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