12 is the answer. Ciao, Graywolf http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Blakely" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 11:07 AM Subject: Re: Numbers and the Golden Section > Well, ok, but since thoughts of a possible ET arose in the mind of man > mathematics has been described by scientists and science fiction writers > alike as the only universal language with which we might begin > communication. The "contact plate" placed aboard the voyager spacecraft > attests to this. Now, I'm no believer in ET ever contacting us, at least in > our lifetime, if he exists, so please don't go off on some tangent about > "ET." I mention this only to point out that the concept is not difficult to > understand. Because mathematics is really only counting, it already exists. > The universe was counting long before our galaxy existed, continuing to > match the same number of electrons with protons and with a myriad of other > examples existing. > > Paraphrased from one of my texts as best I remember it: > Plato first said that Mathematics is the language of God. In the late > Renaissance, science came to be seen as dialogue with nature. and success of > mathematical physics led to thinking that "mathematics is the language of > God." Kepler shared the Greek view that mathematics was the language of God. > Or as one modern writer penned, "Mathematics is the language of God, in > which the book of the universe is written. The better we understand that > language, the better we understand the world it describes." > > Now before you go off half cocked assuming that I'm appealing to deity, > which I'm not, try to understand what they were/are saying here - > Mathematics is universal and preexists us all. > > As to the math professors to whom you prefer, they are translators, > discoverers of another, more ancient language. As to your question, "What, > was differential calculus just out there on the savannahs waiting for the > Neanderthals to discover it?" Well, in accordance with classical thought, > yes! What we express using differential equations was already taking place > for everyone to see,written in nature and performed for example. > > Now, not everyone subscribes to this way of looking at mathematics, but it > is an integral part of historical thought regarding mathematics. I assume > that this view of mathematics and nature is not your preferred view. This is > fine, but that's no excuse for deriding this view inasmuch as it is ancient, > classical and in no way interferes with modern theory. > > Sometimes it's a good idea to step back, get a new pair of glasses and view > a subject unencumbered by the myopia to which we have become so accustomed. > We might even find that we can actually enter into conversation with those > you could not understand before. With a wider view, we may even see our > world as richer than we heretofore imagined. > > Regards, > Bob.... > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!" > - Benjamin Franklin > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Johnston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 9:29 PM > Subject: Re: Numbers and the Golden Section > > > > > What you are > > > saying is EXACTLY what I and others have been saying. When I and others > say > > > or allude to the fact that mathematics existed before the dawn of time > > > > > > Sorry, Bob, but I'm with Dr. Don on this one. What he's said about six > times > > is perfectly correct and I think you're the one not getting it. > Mathematics > > is a human invention and a late one. It hasn't "existed since the dawn of > > time." How did it exist? Were there dinosaur math professors? It's a human > > invention, practiced by humans, and it's evolving--it's a hell of a lot > more > > advanced right now than it was fifty or a hundred years ago, never mind > > since the dawn of time. What, was differential calculus just out there on > > the savannahs waiting for the Neanderthals to discover it? > > > > What you're saying makes no more sense than saying that carburetors have > > existed since the dawn of time. Or scissors, or opera. > > > > --Mike > > > > >
