Chris,
I like your new idea and hope you can work it out.
You deserve our thanks for taking on the initial task of coordinating the
critiques. Although trying to figure out what everybody was saying is a pain
in the a__, I do appreciate your effort to try to make us all better
photographers. And I am trying to read all the comments/critiques! <g>
I still don't think every photo deserves a public comment, or every
contributor who requests a critique deserves a public critique. Maybe only
the best should get a public critique. If 8 or 10 good comment threads
started this way, it could be very informative.
To build on your idea, I would be very happy if something like this
happened...
The gallery is opened and we all get a chance to review it.
For the first 4-5 days, the pdml gets the rush of 'great photo John', or
'have you seen this one', or 'here are my 15 favorites', or 'these are the
cave academe awards'.
After the initial rush, the critiques start happening, public and private.
At this point, you, Chris, could post a list to the pdml of the folks who
want more criticism or feedback. Your pdml critiquers could then volunteer
for specific photos where they felt comfortable giving feedback.
You could then coordinate assignments. Specifically, you could pick 7-10 of
the photos that were interesting or instructive for public critique. You
might assign 3 or 2 people who are interested in a photo to give comments.
But best of all, you might start 5 or 6 interesting discussion threads about
the photos that we can all follow in detail and might want to add to.
If you and the critiquer team were willing, you could also make assignments
for private critiques. That way, you could assure each member submitting to
the gallery who want comments received some feedback.
I guess I'm bothered that the current critiques are so fragmented and
unfocused. I can't follow and keep mental threads going on 90 PUG photos. I
could be much happier following along on 8 or 10 good
discussions...especially when the photographer was a willing participant.
Hope this helps, Bob S.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Well, this certainly seems to be one of the more controversial topics
lately. I decided to stop the assigned comments for every PUG entry for
one reason, and this is it: the PUG is apparently a forum for displaying
photos, not for critiquing them, and so commenting on every photo turns
the PUG into a critiqued gallery. Although the critique was taking place
on the PDML (which is a separate entity from the PUG, as Bill pointed
out), it was still making some people uncomfortable. They were bothered
by the fact that shots which they just wanted to share with people were
being judged or criticized openly in the group, and I can understand their
annoyance. The PUG isn't necessarily about posting your best photo with
the intent of having it analyzed publicly; it can be more about just
sharing a photo that means something to you. Anyway, since the PUG is not
meant to be a critiqued gallery, I agree with the idea of not commenting
on every photo.
I originally suggested the idea of going back to the way it was before,
where we commented on a photo or two if it caught our eye, and if we
wanted comments on our photo we could just ask the PDML. However, since
so many people have said that they find the comments useful and don't want
them to stop, the list might get bogged down in comment requests. It
would be nice if we could find a compromise. Here's one that's a mixture
of my ideas and other people's suggestions; let me know what you think:
We'll still have commentators to talk about photos, but only for the
photographers each month who specifically request comments. I don't mind
coordinating this, so we could give it a try and see how it goes. Since
the PUG is not intended to be a critiqued gallery, send your request for
comments to me, not Bill or the PUG. If you ask for comments in the
letter you send to the PUGmeisters, it ain't gonna happen. All you have
to do is send a letter to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or
[EMAIL PROTECTED] saying "My name is _____ and I want to have my
photo commented on for the June PUG" or something like that, and it'll be
done. You'll have to do this each month when you submit your photo, as
there could be some months when you're showing an image that, for whatever
reason, you don't want comments on. This method works best if there is a
relatively large number of people who want their photos commented on. If
only a handful of people each month request comments, then there's no
point in my coordinating it and they might as well post their requests
directly to the PDML. But at least for the next couple of months try
mailing me directly if you want, and we'll see how it works and what kind
of response we get.
For the commentators: are you still interested in doing this? Since
you're commenting on assigned photos, you're likely having to talk about
photos that you may not be interested in, and it may feel like school work
or like something that you do because you have to, not because you want
to. If you feel like this (and it's a perfectly understandable way to
feel), just drop me a note off-list and I'll take you off the commentators
list. That way you can choose to talk about the photos which interest you
and about which you feel you have something meaningful to say, at your
discretion. If it feels more like homework than fun, why do it? <g>
This should hopefully address most of the objections that were
raised. The default for photos submitted to the PUG will be "no
comments", and you'll have to mail me directly *each month* if you want
the commentators to talk about your shot. (Or you could wait and see if
anyone on the list comments individually, of course.) I hope this is
satisfactory to those people who are hesitant to submit photos because of
the comments, or who don't see the PUG as a critiqued site. As for the
tone of the comments, use your own discretion. Try to point out what you
like along with what you don't, and feel confident that if you do say
something that pisses people off you'll never hear the end of it, right
Shel? *L* Remember to have fun. Because I'm trying to just coordinate
this thing and not dominate it, I want to keep it as simple as possible,
which means no panels to review comments before they're posted to the list
or any similar idea. I trust the commentators to write in a style that
they feel comfortable with, and like I said if it's too far off I'm sure
they'll hear about it. <g>
Any thoughts on this?
chris >>
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