Without knowing what American politicians have said it's hard to know if I'm duplicating anyone's statements, but I thik it's very unlikely that I'll be "echoeing" any one of them. Politicians always have an agenda that primarily focus on re-election, so their time perspective is a little short for this kind of discussion.
To use their contribution to the argument as an excuse for not seeking facts seems like a rather lame excuse to me. Bring in media as well, if you like. In these matters I find that journalistic oversimplification is the main problem with bringing the scientific results to the larger public. What I would like to add, however, is that we're actually discussing two quite different things at the same time. One is climate change. The other is human influence on climate change. We know from eg. glaciology in all mountaineous regions from the tropics to the arctics that it has been getting warmer since around 1880. That's climate change. Denying that this happens is really head in sand, and has nothing to do with either politics or mass media. The info is there and easily accessible via eg. google. Then based on the info comes the discussion of whether this is caused by humans or is part of a scheme greater than we can handle anyway. I didn't say it was USA vs. rest of the world, btw. I just looked at the posts in the archive at one particular point in time, and saw a very consistent pattern. Since then, other people have chimed in and thankfully blurred it. :-) Finally, as I have said in an earlier post, it is the *rate* of change that give reason to worry. Let's say for example that the ocan rise 10m in the next 100 years. Even a century is a short time if you have to move a billion people. See eg. here: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060517175614.htm Jostein On 12/25/06, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jostein, > > Nothing new here, but like Bill and Paul said: > "I find that politics enter into the argument so powerfully on both > sides, that it becomes difficult to determine what is fact and what is > not." > > I doubt we know the facts today, just theories. But we have two > powerful, self serving groups raising an alarm - the media and the > politicians. Do you have anything to add to what they have said, or > are you just echoing their statements? > > Two other thoughts... > 1) This is such a comfy problem, kind of like 'save the whales.' We > all can take a stand and maybe even do our little part to save energy > and reduce carbon dioxide emission's and not really get our hands > dirty. It's all an abstract problem, not like homeless people nearby > or other needy local folks which would bring us face to face with real > problems we might be able to impact. > > 2) I don't think it is the USA vs the rest of the world on this. I > think you ignore a very real problem with the rest of the developing > world. Europe and the USA enjoy a lifestyle based on high consumption > of resources. Places like China aspire to obtain that kind of > lifestyle for their citizens. Who among us has the moral authority to > tell them NO! > > Regards, Bob S. > > On 12/25/06, Jostein Øksne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > So what else is new? :-) > > Jostein > > > > On 12/25/06, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Jostein, > > > Look to the media and politicians in both spheres. They have shaped > > > public opinion. > > > Regards, Bob S. > > > > > > On 12/25/06, Jostein Øksne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > After re-reading all of this thread, something strikes me. All the USA > > > > citizens that have spoken up downplays human impact. All the non-USA > > > > people do not. > > > > > > > > Go figure. :-) > > > > > > > > Jostein > > > > > > > > -- > > > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > > [email protected] > > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > [email protected] > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > [email protected] > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List [email protected] http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
