On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Bob W <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Well, there's obviously a geographical aspect to this >> because I can walk >> > into a shop, buy a Leica or an SLR, and pay no taxes, fees >> or shipping on >> > either, so those aspects are irrelevant. Otherwise I can buy & sell >> > privately, in which case those aspects don't feature at >> all. Buying & then >> > selling high quality old film cameras, whether they are >> SLRs or Leica Ms >> > involve essentially no financial loss, unless you want to >> start artifically >> > introducing shipping stuff for the Leica which may apply to >> your case but >> > certainly not to all. >> >> Do you not pay VAT in the UK? I understand it's generally included in >> the list price unlike sales or VAT taxes in most North American >> jurisdictions which are not included in the list price but it is there >> nonetheless. > > There is a very much smaller amount of VAT on used equipment than on new > equipment. This is not just because used prices are lower, but because the > calculation is different - for used equipment VAT is charged on the seller's > margin, not on the selling price. It applies to everything, not just Leicas, > and is not quoted separately from the price, so it is invisible to the > buyer. The difference in the amount of VAT between a used Leica and, say, a > used MX is trivial. If the government scrapped VAT on used cameras nobody > would notice any difference.
I wasn't aware that the VAT was lower on used items or calculated on margin instead of selling price. However it simply isn't invisible to the buyer since they can still see non-VAT pricing via the net. > > However, in my experience most used Leicas are traded privately, in which > case there is no VAT at all. Even if you buy it from a dealer, the chances > are it's a commission sale. I sold my M4-2 through a dealer on a commission > sale. This seems to be how most used high-end stuff goes here, so as a > private seller there was no VAT in the price. I had to pay the dealer's > commission of course, but that was my choice and I could have avoided it. >From what I've seen, most used leica's are sold privately over the internet. > >> And the vast majority of folk cannot buy such gear >> locally, such gear is really only available for local sale in the >> largest of cities in the western world and only widely available in a >> few of those. Private sales are of course another matter but shipping >> is generally a factor there as well since the primary venues for such >> are online fora such as RFF or APUG. Not to mention the fact that >> buying used at a retail location very rarely results in paying >> competitive prices for Leica bodies. >> >> Therefore your objections are almost entirely the exception rather >> than the rule, particular to your location in the London area and a >> few other locations. >> > > The objections stand. If you have to pay shipping etc when you buy the > thing, and the great majority of your market also has to, then the shipping > is part of the price, just as VAT is. If you choose not to recover it that's > your problem. And whether you buy a Leica or an MX you still have to pay for > shipping, probably at the same rate, so where's the Leica tax? > > Bob > For starters, since you're competing against fairly standard pricing (the pricing on Leica bodies is quite static, otherwise recouping purchase price would not be possible) you'll either need to price over the competition to recover shipping costs or eat the costs and thus be out your original shipping costs. Unlike Leica's, old SLR's are widely available as used items in local stores. There's little reason to buy online and pay shipping unless you really are out in the boonies or desire a specific model. And even then shipping is still cheaper since there's no need to buy insurance on an sub-$100 item unlike the Leica and the SLR body will typically be lighter (and thus cheaper to ship). Also the low price of the bodies means that people will generally ship on the cheap. $20 is on the high side for shipping for a manual SLR but very much on the low side for a Leica body or similar high-value camera. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List [email protected] http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
