On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 01:44:02PM -0500, Zos Xavius wrote: > See also: > > http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/115-pentax-k-5/118892-how-iso-3200-works-your-k-5-technical-2.html > > Especially falconeye's comments.
Very interesting. There are times like this when I seriously wish that I could peek at the source code. I wonder if the data sheets for the Sony Exmoor sensors are available? I suppose that one possibility would be to take a 16 stop grey scale, photograph it at different ISOs and exposures and compare the data in the raw files. As a geek, I want to know every detail about how the process works, where data is being thrown a way. As a photographer, what I really need to know is "what gives me the best results in which circumstances?". As a geek, I like to think that understanding the process would let me figure things out from first principles. As a lazy photographer, I just set the ISO and do the best I can with the light available. Assuming that high ISO is done with math rather than electronics, it is an interesting question as to whether a smaller processor closer to the sensor can do a better job than a bigger processor on a desktop computer. > > On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Zos Xavius <zosxav...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Boris, > > > > http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/K5/K5RAW.HTM > > > > "Here, we can see the Pentax K-5 clearly produces the cleanest looking > > RAW files, though it appears to be applying some noise reduction at > > higher ISOs (above ISO 1,600), which cannot be turned off. The noise > > reduction applied is pretty subtle, though, nothing like the > > heavy-handed approach used in earlier Sony SLRs. Still, it's something > > we'd rather not see in RAW files, as it does impact fine detail." > > > > This is noted by many other people as well. The noise reduction > > settings are for JPEG only by the way. The only affect how much NR is > > applied to a jpeg if your are converting raw or shooting in JPEG. > > > > On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 2:00 AM, Boris Liberman <bori...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Zos, two points that still keep me wondering: > >> > >> 1. I couldn't find any mention of RAW noise reduction in Imaging > >> resource review after this link: > >> http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/K5/K5A.HTM > >> > >> 2. I see what the person on DPReview wrote, but I think there is a > >> confusion and (as explained in imaging resource review) the noise > >> reduction can be configured per ISO. I don't remember exactly, but it > >> stands to reason that ISO 3200 is where it is set to kick in by > >> default. > >> > >> Specifically, once I learned about this setting, I went and configured > >> both of my cameras to apply no noise reduction until ISO 12800 or so. > >> > >> So, I'm yet unconvinced that K5 applies noise reduction at ISO 3200 > >> just because. > >> > >> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 7:24 PM, Zos Xavius <zosxav...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> Sorry for the delayed reply Boris. > >>> > >>> http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/36834206 > >>> > >>> Also read the Imaging Resource and dxomarks reviews of the K-5. Pretty > >>> much all the reviews noticed the RAW NR above 1600. Given the K-5's > >>> output at 3200, Pentax made a good choice IMO. Their hardware NR is > >>> pretty decent, very clean looking, and still retains a lot of detail, > >>> especially after the raws are processed gently in lightroom. I never > >>> once objected to the engineers' decisions on the K-5 when it came to > >>> the sensor. Pentax seems to be very good at massaging maximum > >>> performance out of a sensor. The K-3 IMO looks very good too. A 50% > >>> increase in density with similar noise and DR over the previous > >>> generation is very good IMO. The next round of chips will likely be > >>> even better. What's not to like? The K-5 I have is very good in IQ. > >>> I'll keep shooting it till it doesn't take pictures anymore. > >>> > >>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 7:46 AM, Boris Liberman <bori...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> The source of information that indicates that K-5 applies smoothing to > >>>> RAW files even if I specifically set its settings not to do so. > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Zos Xavius <zosxav...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> The source for K-5 raw smoothing? The source for resized K3 files? > >>>>> What source do you speak of Mr Boris? :P > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:45 PM, Boris Liberman <bori...@gmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> On 11/26/2013 6:38 AM, Zos Xavius wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Also I must add that the k-5 does some definite noise reduction to the > >>>>>>> raw files over iso 1600, whether that's in the imaging pipeline or the > >>>>>>> firmware is neither hear nor there at this point. At 3200 on the k-5 > >>>>>>> you are most certainly trading resolution for image quality. I don't > >>>>>>> have any real figures, but I feel that looking at the files from my > >>>>>>> k-5, its easily giving up quite a bit of resolution due to noise > >>>>>>> smoothing. From what I can gather the K-3 is resolving more fine > >>>>>>> detail but yet showing similar amounts of noise when resized to k-5 > >>>>>>> resolution. That's what I have seen with my own eyes at least. To be > >>>>>>> honest they are pretty close and careful raw processing will result > >>>>>>> with more detail in the k-3 files with similar noise levels. I find > >>>>>>> pentax's jpeg engine to be not the greatest at noise reduction, but > >>>>>>> honestly, its better than some other camera makers too. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Zos, can you please point me to the source of that information? I'm > >>>>>> extremely interested to *know*. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >>>>>> PDML@pdml.net > >>>>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > >>>>>> follow the directions. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >>>>> PDML@pdml.net > >>>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > >>>>> follow the directions. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Boris > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >>>> PDML@pdml.net > >>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > >>>> follow the directions. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >>> PDML@pdml.net > >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > >>> follow the directions. > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Boris > >> > >> -- > >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> PDML@pdml.net > >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > >> follow the directions. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
