Robert, List,
 
I am not up to date with the thread, but in your post below you wrote, that Peirce abandoned the model of the triadic sign, and instead started to analyse dyadic relations of determination. 
 
I don´t think, that one has to abandon the model of the irreducible triad to also talk about dyads. I rember what Jon Awbrey wrote long time ago: 
 
The triad ABC cannot be really reduced to the dyads AB, BC, CA. But there is something called "projective", or "projectional" (I don´t remember) reduction. I guess it means, that not the triad is really reduced, but projected on three dyads. Not to claim total reduction, but to have something incompletely (with accepted loss of information) reduced, you can work with, for analysis.
 
I think, that in a similar way the dyads AA, AB, AC are another kind of projective reduction, in case A plays a central role. That is the case with the sign triad, so the projective reduction there is SS, SO, SI. (aka or or S, SO, SI).
 
So you can talk about dyads without saying, that the triad would be reducible, or, that the model of the irreducible triad could or should be abandoned. 
 
Another comment of mine is, that determination is not everything, it is only one aspect. For example, tha relation between the sign and the object is a bilateral, but not symmetric one: The object determines the sign, and the sign denotes the object.
 
Best regards
 
Helmut
 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Juni 2025 um 17:39
Von: "robert marty" <[email protected]>
An: Ulysses <[email protected]>, Peirce-L <[email protected]>
Betreff: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Modeling and finalizing Peirce's semiotics with AI, Part 1.
List, Ulysses,
 
Thanks Ulysses,

First of all, I must point out that this is not my opinion, but what Peirce may have said in 1903 when he delivered his fifth lecture at the Lowell Institute, if he provided proof of the results he asserted, based on his logical and mathematical knowledge at the time. Personally, I settled this question, in my view, more than fifty years ago with functors for sign classes and natural transformations of functors for lattices. I discuss this in my article. You can find it in the publications I have posted on Academia.edu, the main one being

The trichotomic machine (Semiotica, vol. 2019, no. 228, May 2019).

As for the simple Python code you propose, it hides an assumption, which is that of the two concatenated determinations of the sign by the object and of the interpretant by the sign. This is exactly what the editors of the CP are doing, in a somewhat amateurish way (no offense intended), in the note I quote: using the future to explain the present. It corresponds to a radical change in Peirce's definition of the sign, which abandons the focus on triadic relations (these will be the consequences of the new axioms) by placing an Object in the world, the sign in the world too, but determined by the Object, in such a way that it determines a mind in the time of the perception of the sign, thanks to its own capacities to support mediation, as the Object could have done if it had been perceived. This is a change of focus: we look differently at the constituent elements we had and proceed to a new hypostatic abstraction that reconfigures their relations in pairs, with determinations, that is oriented relations. You have seen it clearly: from the most complex to the least complex, passing through a middle level of complexity of the sign, with complexity being associated with possible natures. All that remains is to algebraize (in the category of relational structures or apply to computer science with Python, the new model lends itself better to this). You have modeled this yourself by choosing the numbers 3, 2, and 1 in the premises of your code, which you wrote in one of the six possible orders, the reverse of the natural order, and this is unspoken. I have not mentioned all the related issues, as there are many and they are the subject of recurring debates and sometimes heated discussions...

Attached you will find the Python code that Le Chat, the chatbot from French Ai Mistral that I also use, sent me at my request.

Sincerely yours,

Robert Marty
Honorary Professor ; PhD Mathematics ; PhD Philosophy 
 
Honorary Professor ; PhD Mathematics ; PhD Philosophy 
 

Le mar. 24 juin 2025 à 13:51, Ulysses <[email protected]> a écrit :
Interesting work Marty. 
 
Can you explain what your method tells us that a simple combinatorial script does not?
 
For example if you create a simple python script like this, you can easily derive the 10 classes from three trichotomies. 
 
# Script:
trichotomy = 1,2,3
i = 0
for a in trichotomy:
for b in trichotomy:
for c in trichotomy:
if a >= b >= c:
i+=1
print(i, ": ", a, b, c)
 
# Output:
1 :  1 1 1
2 :  2 1 1
3 :  2 2 1
4 :  2 2 2
5 :  3 1 1
6 :  3 2 1
7 :  3 2 2
8 :  3 3 1
9 :  3 3 2
10 :  3 3 3
Is your work aimed at giving motivation to how the three correlates can be related to natural numbers, and therefore would obey this sort of combinatorial ordering? Or are you saying that this combinatorial ordering itself is not even necessary and the structure of the 10 classes emerges from even simpler assumptions about Min(), Max() and Mid() / Any(), All(), Some() ? 
 
Thank you,
Ulysses
 
 

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 at 12:51 pm, robert marty <[email protected]> wrote:

List, 

In this part1 of my project, I propose an original contribution: a logical path a priori within triadic relations alone that leads to ten classes without any recourse to external or posterior notions, precisely as the Peirce's text asserts. A second innovation concerns the method used to spare the reader from tedious manual combinations, that is, using Artificial Intelligence.

I will accept any comments or critical remarks, even the harshest ones, as a gift.

https://www.academia.edu/130131910/Modeling_and_finalizing_Peirces_semiotics_with_AI

Sincerely yours, 

Robert Marty

Honorary Professor ; PhD Mathematics ; PhD Philosophy 
 
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