JAS, List Of course I agree that the categories ‘pertain to every branch of his system of thought - and are not just for classification. But that’s not what I was talking about - I was pointing out that not all ’signs are manifestations of 3ns’. I continue to disagree with you on your assertion that they are..
‘Mediation, for example, is not just carried out by 3ns, but, as can be seen in the other classes, can be carried out by 2ns and 1ns [ and as Robert Marty also pointed out, there are only six kinds of tokens] … and thatI disagree with your assertion that the Interpretants function in modes of Thirdness - something not found in Peirce. Thirdness is operate as habits and laws which enable continuity,,, Adn I disagree with your outline of the cosmos - and continue to view Peirce’s outline -1.413 as more logical than your a priori determinism . I don’t see the point of continuing this.. Edwina > On Nov 7, 2025, at 6:29 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt <[email protected]> wrote: > > List: > > I changed the subject line to reflect what Edwina evidently would like to > discuss, which is not at all what I have been addressing. She does not > understand me correctly, and has never understood me correctly, no matter how > much I have explained myself. For one thing, she seems to have a much > narrower conception of Peirce's three categories, especially 3ns. > > First, they pertain to every branch of his entire system of thought and are > not confined to his trichotomies for classifying signs. Most fundamentally, > as discovered in phaneroscopy, they are the irreducible elements of anything > that is or could be present to any mind in any way--"When you strive to get > the purest conceptions you can of 1ns, 2ns, and 3ns, [you are] thinking of > quality, reaction, and mediation" (CP 1.530, 1903). In his earlier writings, > 3ns is representation, of which mediation is a generalization; and in his > later writings, the "Universe of Experience" that corresponds to 3ns includes > "everything which is essentially a Sign" (CP 6.455, EP 2:435, 1908). > Accordingly, all signs are manifestations of 3ns--not just legisigns/types, > but also sinsigns/tokens and qualisigns/tones; not just symbols, but also > indices and icons; not just arguments/delomes, but also dicisigns/phemes and > rhemes/semes. > > Second, 3ns is not confined to habits and laws, it is also exemplified by > continuity--"that which is really, as I regard it, the characteristic of my > doctrine, namely, that I chiefly insist upon continuity, or 3ns" (CP 6.202, > 1898). It is the substrate underlying possibilities (1ns) and actualities > (2ns), like the clean blackboard on which chalk marks are drawn (CP 6.203-8). > As I have been saying, this applies in semeiotic, where a sign type is an > inexhaustible continuum (3ns) of potential sign tokens (1ns), some of which > are actualized as instances of the type (2ns); and in both ontology and > cosmology, where the constitution of being is an inexhaustible continuum > (3ns) of indefinite possibilities (1ns), some of which are actualized (2ns). > After all, "Metaphysics consists in the results of the absolute acceptance of > logical [i.e., semeiotic] principles not merely as regulatively valid, but as > truths of being" (CP 1.487, c. 1896). > > Regards, > > Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA > Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian > www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt> / twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt > <http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt> > On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 7:58 PM Edwina Taborsky <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> List, JAS >> >> JAS wrote: >>> even a "first-time" sign token is an instance of a sign type because its >>> (definitely significant) form is capable of repetition in subsequent sign >>> tokens, and the same is true of natural signs. In fact, anything that we >>> can describe using words, which as sign tokens are always instances of sign >>> types, must likewise be either a general itself or an instantiation of a >>> general. Only an entirely unique sign token would not be an instance of a >>> sign type--something brute, unrepeatable, and indescribable; pure 2ns, with >>> no 3ns whatsoever, which of course is impossible for anything involved in >>> semiosis. >> I find this a strange outline, because, it is asserting that all >> triads/signs include 3ns or general habits, ie,enabling reproduction of that >> type. But I note that of Peirce’s ten sign classes within semeiosis, , four >> have no 3ns involved: the Qualisign, the Iconic Sinsign, the Rhematic >> Indexical Sinsign, and the Dicent Sinsign. Aren’t these ‘involved in >> semeiosis’? >> >> Furthermore, using Robert Marty’s laltice model it can be shown tha there is >> an ‘accretive path’ from the sign lacking 3ns, to the inclusion of 3ns, >> suggesting that the matter/mind of the world is capable of knowledge >> acquisition and the generation of entirely new forms of matter/mind, where >> as Marty points out, one sees a ‘process of growth or enlargement by a >> gradual categorical build up”..Of course this is also briefly outlined by >> Peirce in 1.413- the emergence of the universe, >> >> JAS’s outline, if I understand him correctly, rejects any such evolutionary >> buildup and instead, posits an a priori Habit/3ns already existent in any >> novel emergent Sign.Where did this general law come from? Is there some kind >> of a priori bank filled with Platonic Forms waiting to be called upon? Or-Is >> it purely a mutant randomness with no interaction with its environmental >> realities? >> >> Or is the answer to the emergence of new signs a mater of semiosic >> informational dynamics, with a novel instance emerging in interaction with >> its environment, and when enough of these reach a critical threshold of >> commonality - 3ns becomes operative within their format. >> >> These are two very different approaches to the question of How Does Novelty >> Emerge within Semiosis. >> >> Edwina > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . > ► <a href="mailto:[email protected]";>UNSUBSCRIBE FROM PEIRCE-L</a> > . But, if your subscribed email account is not your default email account, > then go to > https://list.iu.edu/sympa/signoff/peirce-l . > ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and > co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
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