> On Oct 20, 2016, at 10:23 AM, Søren Brier <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> I can find no easy way from phenomenology alone - not even from Peirce’s 
> triadic phaneroscophy - to the reality of an outer world and other embodied 
> conscious subjects. I do not think Peirce solves this problem. Do you?

When you say to the reality of the outer world do you mean in terms of proof? 
After all in one sense Peirce’s phaneroscopy handles this well. It appears as 
real and we can not doubt. Which in a certain sense seems completely 
satisfactory. But this is because Peirce rejects the Cartesian tendencies in 
Husserl. (I’d add that Heidegger makes a similar move against Descartes and 
Husserl in Being and Time to deny that denying the real world can even be posed)

If that’s not what you mean (and forgive me - I’ve not had time to read the 
list for a while) then doesn’t Peirce’s notion of continuity solve it?  That is 
how the inside and outside are approached asymptotically letting us move from 
mind like to matter like and back?

Now if we want to say that the outer world aren’t just objects but conscious 
objects then we have to unpack what we mean. Again I think Peirce’s notion of 
growth of signs handles this without all the confusion that I think we 
sometimes get in how Levinas, Derrida, Marion or others. There’s a reason why 
post-Husserlian phenomenology goes in that direction (even among those who 
consider themselves more Husserlian than Heideggarian). While I might be wrong 
I a big part of the problem is in conceiving phenomenology too statically 
rather than as process. Trying to explain process in terms of stasis is 
inherently problematic and creates artificial problems. Peirce avoids most of 
that IMO.

> On Oct 20, 2016, at 9:53 AM, Jeffrey Brian Downard <[email protected]> 
> wrote:

> 
> Husserl, for example, is working towards the same sort of end in his 
> phenomenological theory, but his mathematical reflections are overly guided 
> by ideas drawn from arithmetic and metrical geometries--and he misses real 
> insights about the character of the continuous and discrete features in our 
> observations can be drawn from graph theory and topology. As such, he (and 
> Heidegger following him) simply do not provide the kind of phenomenological 
> analysis of the elemental formal and material features of experience that is 
> really needed.

This seems completely right, although I’d argue Heidegger in his late period is 
trying to do that. It’s just that he adopts a very unhelpful quasi-mystical and 
poetic language to do this. I think the big move Heidegger makes from Husserl 
is to move towards a more dynamic conception of phenomenology. But most 
phenomenology is still trapped in a language that’s quite static. Heidegger 
starts going beyond this (although not far enough) but I do think he also gets 
at some of the issues you raise. It’s just that his language ends up being less 
helpful.

I’d actually say that while Peirce does do something like phenomenology even in 
his thought the distinction between inside and outside seems pretty blurry. So 
you get comments like consciousness is his swerve as seen from the inside. Or 
that appeal to a mathematical graph of continuity to explain how the inside and 
outside are connected. I’m not sure he’s able to do what I take you criticism 
of post-Husserlian phenomenology entails. Rather he suggests that because of 
continuity it’s just not a problem. (I’d add that the externalism of both 
Heidegger and Peirce also make a lot of traditional problems of inside/outside 
less of an issue)


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