Edwina, Gene, Peter, Jon S, Jon A, list, Edwina wrote:
Where I would quibble with you, Gary, apart from the fact that such an analysis has nothing to do with Peircean semiotics - is that one has to, I think, be careful with analogies. One situation may be similar to another situation only in part. The danger with an analogy is that once one has made that first correlation of' X-is-analogous-to-Y'- then, suddenly, one includes all the other attributes that belong to ONLY Y. I can't agree with you that such an analysis as Gene's "has nothing to do with Peircean semiotics." First, as Gene remarked, it was Peirce's view that "symbols grow," and the symbolic meaning of the nativity* has* grown and can grow further--at least in some people's minds (including mine).The Holy Family was, despite your seemingly questioning it, if not quite "destitute," at least very poor, and no doubt even more so having indeed traveled to "a foreign land." And, further, while I might tend to agree with you that "one has to be careful with analogies," I would hold that Gene's analysis most certainly has its Peircean semeiotic facets, and moreover, that as Jon A wrote (unfortunately, in another thread he created for no good reason that I can see), there is in Peirce a very important "logic of analogy," one which John Sowa has also done some significant work in. See for example his "Analogical Reasoning." http://www.jfsowa.com/pubs/analog.htm. I see that Jon S has addressed this well, so I'll stop here. Best, Gary R [image: Gary Richmond] *Gary Richmond* *Philosophy and Critical Thinking* *Communication Studies* *LaGuardia College of the City University of New York* *718 482-5690* On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> wrote: > Gary R, list - > > Where I would quibble with you, Gary, apart from the fact that such an > analysis has nothing to do with Peircean semiotics - is that one has to, I > think, be careful with analogies. One situation may be similar to another > situation only in part. The danger with an analogy is that once one has > made that first correlation of' X-is-analogous-to-Y'- then, suddenly, one > includes all the other attributes that belong to ONLY Y. > > Edwina > > > > > > On Thu 28/12/17 1:05 PM , Gary Richmond [email protected] sent: > > Eugene, Peter, list, > > I very much like your analysis, Gene. You wrote: > > The implication here is that the experience of the nativity scene, with > refugees representing today as echoing Jesus as a refugee, imparts in the > witness an ability to empathize with "the other." > > However, I think that rather than 'imparting' "an ability to empathize > with 'the other' " (although it may do that in some, perhaps few, > individuals) that one needs already to possess that 'ability' to appreciate > the analogy and respond to it. In the USA at least it would appear that > many Christians, esp. of the evangelical fundamentalist stripe, have lost > it (or at least suppress it). > > Best, > > Gary R > > > [image: Blocked image] > > Gary Richmond > Philosophy and Critical Thinking > Communication Studies > LaGuardia College of the City University of New York > 718 482-5690 <(718)%20482-5690> > > On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Eugene Halton <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Dear Peter, >> Peirce described the way in which symbols can grow over time. And >> clearly one of the meanings of the symbol of the nativity is the family. >> Feuerbach called attention to how the holy family symbol is a >> representation of the earthly family. Marx took it further by claiming that >> the holy family symbol of the earthly family is also a projection of the >> bourgeois family in his time. >> A year ago Pope Francis adapted the symbol to the refugee situation >> by including a Maltese fishing boat in the nativity scene at the Vatican, a >> reference to refugees arriving by boat. >> Perhaps George Herbert Mead can have more to say on this than >> Peirce, in Mead's description of what he termed "the significant symbol." >> In Mead's significant symbol the other is included reflectively in the >> meaning of the symbol: >> "it is through the ability to be the other at same time that he is >> himself that the symbol becomes significant." >> (From "A Behavioristic Account of the Significant Symbol"). >> The implication here is that the experience of the nativity scene, >> with refugees representing today as echoing Jesus as a refugee, imparts in >> the witness an ability to empathize with "the other." >> Gene H >> >> >> On Dec 28, 2017 9:34 AM, "Skagestad, Peter" < [email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Listers, >>> >>> >>> I have a somewhat unusual question. My sister is writing an Art History >>> thesis on nativity scenes and their contemporary relevance. An example is >>> one at a street mission in Trondheim, Norway, depicting the Holy Family as >>> present-day refugees from the Middle East. Now the question is what, if >>> anything, might semiotics have to say about such depiction? The answer may >>> be obvious, but it escapes me, at least for the moment. Any suggestions? >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> ----------------------------- >>> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >>> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >>> [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to >>> PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe >>> PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at >>> <http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm> >>> http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> ----------------------------- >> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >> [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L >> but to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the >> BODY of the message. More at >> <http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm>http://www.cspeirce.com/ >> peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . >> >> >> >> >> >> > >
----------------------------- PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
