By the same token, not all fundamentalists agree on everything and fundamentalism lite -- a sort of trust of the text in the absence of other data -- is probably widespread.
amazon.com/author/stephenrose On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Gary Richmond <[email protected]> wrote: > List, Peter, Jon S, > > I very much regret an over-generalization I made in one of my posts in > this thread when I wrote " . . I think that rather than 'imparting' "an > ability to empathize with 'the other' " . . . that one needs already to > possess that 'ability' to appreciate the analogy and respond to it. In the > USA at least it would appear that many Christians, esp. of the evangelical > fundamentalist stripe, have lost it (or at least suppress it)." > > Jon S also noted that not all evangelicals are fundamentalists. > > In any event, Peter's on-list response to my remark prompted me to write > him off-list. He replied that no offense was taken by him and that no > personal apology was needed. But he thought that if there were evangelicals > on the list (and I know that there are) that I might consider an on-list > apology. I asked if I might forward my off-list apology to him as that > apology, and he gave his consent. > > off-list > > Peter, > > I didn't mean to give offense by suggesting that *all* evangelicals have > lost their compassion and decency. I attend Riverside Church in Harlem, a > very social justice oriented church, and some of the pastoral staff and > parishioners there have left their evangelical roots especially because of > the politicizing of religion in recent decades, and especially in the > so-called Trump era. They are all fine people, and I too know many good, > practicing evangelicals who are not members of Riverside Church. > > Perhaps I am most sensitive to this because my spouse is African-American, > and some recent events, editorialized in several places including the New > York Times (see, for example, https://www.huffingto > npost.com/entry/black-pastor-southern-baptist-convention_ > us_596e53d7e4b0000eb19667cc) suggest to me that at least in the South and > South West that politics has in some pastors and their churches begun to > trump (pun intended) compassion and genuine Christian love (Gene gave the > example of the recent Georgia race, but there are many). > > Anyhow, I am a practicing Christian who should not be publicly making such > generalizations as I just did and to which you > > properly reacted. Please accept my apology. I will make it public if you > wish. > > Best always, > > Gary > > > [image: Gary Richmond] > > *Gary Richmond* > *Philosophy and Critical Thinking* > *Communication Studies* > *LaGuardia College of the City University of New York* > *718 482-5690 <(718)%20482-5690>* > > On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Skagestad, Peter <[email protected] > > wrote: > >> Some of my best friends are evangelicals or fundamentalists and >> thoroughly compassionate people. Enough said. But Gene's references to >> both Pope Francis and G.H. Mead strike me as highly relevant to my >> question, and I will refer my sister to a few quotes from Mead. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Peter >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Jon Alan Schmidt <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:11:43 PM >> *To:* Eugene Halton >> *Cc:* Peirce List >> *Subject:* Re: [PEIRCE-L] Nativity scenes >> >> Gene, Gary R., List: >> >> How one actually responds to this or any other Sign (Dynamic >> Interpretants) will depend on one's peculiar habits of interpretation >> (Final Interpretants)--feeling, action, and thought--as inculcated by one's >> upbringing and subsequently cultivated by one's deliberate self-control and >> self-criticism. Observing one's different responses to analogous Signs, as >> well as anticipating them in advance as possibilities (Immediate >> Interpretants), can contribute to the latter process as a form of the >> "outward clash" that always confronts us, perhaps calling attention to an >> inconsistency in one's own character. In a sense, it is not so much our >> initial responses that define us as how we respond to those responses. >> >> As a terminological aside, an evangelical Christian is not necessarily a >> fundamentalist, and a fundamentalist is not necessarily a political and/or >> religious conservative. Of course, Peirce would almost certainly oppose >> fundamentalism of any stripe, including both the dogmatic and relativist >> varieties. >> >> Regards, >> >> Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA >> Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran Layman >> www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.LinkedIn.com_in_JonAlanSchmidt&d=DwMFaQ&c=lqHimbpwJeF7VTDNof4ddl8H-RbXeAdbMI2MFE1TXqA&r=FDb_MiuBhz-kalFUhg0uAyMl7SzpVFxovBRZ5FwNBJY&m=aN7jp6iApO3C_w2v5WmgkcfFo_ThmgiB4LsM7iW41uI&s=nCPO-Ac96siInpxbxnaqE1HFu13jkQKMXgtEphNugkE&e=> >> - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_JonAlanSchmidt&d=DwMFaQ&c=lqHimbpwJeF7VTDNof4ddl8H-RbXeAdbMI2MFE1TXqA&r=FDb_MiuBhz-kalFUhg0uAyMl7SzpVFxovBRZ5FwNBJY&m=aN7jp6iApO3C_w2v5WmgkcfFo_ThmgiB4LsM7iW41uI&s=oYb5Y2wN2EpfBbGyT7PRKTQ_1b0_SYlRIAwqz8N4g9Q&e=> >> >> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Eugene Halton <[email protected] >> > wrote: >> >>> Yes, Gary, perhaps I did not state it clearly enough. Without the >>> capacity to be the other at the same time as oneself, key to Mead's >>> definition of the significant symbol and to empathy, nothing will be >>> imparted. With that capacity, the scene can impart something new to the >>> witness, an identification of the family of Jesus as refugees with >>> contemporary refugees today. One can experience "the other" as oneself, >>> feel what that situation is, and presumably, have compassion for it. >>> And yes, Gary, evangelical Christian fundamentalists in the US, >>> such as the 80% of those in Alabama who voted for an accused child molester >>> recently, disregarding the accusations and even often denigrating the >>> accusers because he represents their political ideology, like all >>> fundamentalists perhaps, have retreated into a bubble wherein the other is >>> not simply denied, but attacked. Here callousedness replaces empathy, and >>> "the other" is scapegoated. Mead's "ability to be the other at same time >>> that he is himself" is reversed: the ability to not be the other at the >>> same time that he is himself becomes the recipe for the loss of the >>> capacity for self-criticism. >>> Gene H >>> >>> On Dec 28, 2017 1:06 PM, "Gary Richmond" <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Eugene, Peter, list, >>>> >>>> I very much like your analysis, Gene. You wrote: >>>> >>>> The implication here is that the experience of the nativity scene, with >>>> refugees representing today as echoing Jesus as a refugee, imparts in the >>>> witness an ability to empathize with "the other." >>>> >>>> However, I think that rather than 'imparting' "an ability to empathize >>>> with 'the other' " (although it may do that in some, perhaps few, >>>> individuals) that one needs already to possess that 'ability' to appreciate >>>> the analogy and respond to it. In the USA at least it would appear that >>>> many Christians, esp. of the evangelical fundamentalist stripe, have lost >>>> it (or at least suppress it). >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Gary R >>>> >>>> [image: Gary Richmond] >>>> >>>> *Gary Richmond* >>>> *Philosophy and Critical Thinking* >>>> *Communication Studies* >>>> *LaGuardia College of the City University of New York* >>>> *718 482-5690 <%28718%29%20482-5690>* >>>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Eugene Halton < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Peter, >>>>> Peirce described the way in which symbols can grow over time. And >>>>> clearly one of the meanings of the symbol of the nativity is the family. >>>>> Feuerbach called attention to how the holy family symbol is a >>>>> representation of the earthly family. Marx took it further by claiming >>>>> that >>>>> the holy family symbol of the earthly family is also a projection of the >>>>> bourgeois family in his time. >>>>> A year ago Pope Francis adapted the symbol to the refugee >>>>> situation by including a Maltese fishing boat in the nativity scene at the >>>>> Vatican, a reference to refugees arriving by boat. >>>>> Perhaps George Herbert Mead can have more to say on this than >>>>> Peirce, in Mead's description of what he termed "the significant symbol." >>>>> In Mead's significant symbol the other is included reflectively in the >>>>> meaning of the symbol: >>>>> "it is through the ability to be the other at same time that he is >>>>> himself that the symbol becomes significant." >>>>> (From "A Behavioristic Account of the Significant Symbol"). >>>>> The implication here is that the experience of the nativity scene, >>>>> with refugees representing today as echoing Jesus as a refugee, imparts in >>>>> the witness an ability to empathize with "the other." >>>>> Gene H >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 28, 2017 9:34 AM, "Skagestad, Peter" <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Listers, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have a somewhat unusual question. My sister is writing an Art >>>>>> History thesis on nativity scenes and their contemporary relevance. An >>>>>> example is one at a street mission in Trondheim, Norway, depicting the >>>>>> Holy >>>>>> Family as present-day refugees from the Middle East. Now the question is >>>>>> what, if anything, might semiotics have to say about such depiction? The >>>>>> answer may be obvious, but it escapes me, at least for the moment. Any >>>>>> suggestions? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter >>>>>> >>>>> >> >> ----------------------------- >> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >> [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L >> but to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the >> BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce >> -l/peirce-l.htm . >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ----------------------------- > PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to > [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L > but to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the > BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm > . > > > > > >
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