I think that anywhere that choice can be said to exist there freedom also exists and from our point of view and perhaps all others chance as well. I think we are on the threshold of learning more and more about the reality of which we are all part. In the song "Idiot Wind" Dylan says 'it's a wonder we can even feed ourselves'. I think by the end of the century we will have evolved more than in the last 2000 years as to how we see reality. Peirce seems to me the fount of wisdom here having, virtually insisted on the foundational truths of that movement.
amazon.com/author/stephenrose On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Stephen Jarosek <[email protected]> wrote: > John, Edwina > > Even though I am not a chemist, I chose my words very carefully! My choice > of the two words "silicon molecule" specifically precludes the word "atom". > What you are saying, with regards to how a silicon atom combines with other > atoms into molecules is fine. > > And then there is the question of the role of silicon-based molecules in > forming into crystals... or glass (which strictly speaking is a liquid)… or > mica. Looked at in this way, I definitely see your point. For example, > silicon-based crystals forming in a lump of granite. I just find talk of > consciousness in rocks kinda cringey, prone to category errors, and am > inclined to keep my distance from it. > > As for other complex systems, like weather patterns, tornadoes and such... > little evidence of holon behavior... a tornado is not a holon (mind-body) > making choices from its Umwelt, and so the Peircean categories cannot > apply. They can only apply to the individual molecules that comprise the > tornado. > > If I read you correctly, I interpret what you’re saying in the context of > emergence theory (along the lines of complex adaptive systems, mathematical > order from material chaos). It's a materialist position that I am no longer > comfortable with. At issue for me, wrt emergence theory, is the apparent > absence of holonic (mind-body) behavior, choice-making and Umwelts that can > be expressed in a semiotic narrative. > > Regards > > > > > > *From:* Edwina Taborsky [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] > *Sent:* Sunday, February 18, 2018 4:32 PM > *To:* Peirce-L; John F Sowa > *Subject:* Re: [PEIRCE-L] The concept of system is just a human > abstraction > > > > > John - exactly, I fully agree - and nicely said. AND in addition, all > these processes are semiosic and involve Mind. > > Edwina > > > *On Sun 18/02/18 10:24 AM , John F Sowa [email protected] > <[email protected]> sent:* > > On 2/18/2018 7:40 AM, Stephen Jarosek wrote: > > As far as the silicon molecule is concerned, the stone has no context > > that is relevant to it. The silicon molecule receives no cue from the > > stone as to what its properties should be. > > That is not true. A silicon atom behaves in very different ways in > different molecules. In minerals, it is in some molecule, such as > silicon dioxide. But SiO2 may combine in more complex molecules, > such as aluminum silicate. And those molecules are affected by the > crystals, glasses, and surface interactions that affect the rock as > a whole. Heat, pressure, tension, torsion, and chemical processes > are transmitted to, from, and through every molecule in the rock. > > > The stone is not a system, but an agglomeration of disconnected > minerals. > > No!!! The concept of a system is just an abstraction from artifacts > that humans design. For inorganic matter, even a single rock is a > complex system. Weather, volcanoes, earthquakes, stars, galaxies, > supernovas, black holes, and the Big Bang are far more complex. > For organic matter, the processes are even complex and organized than > any human can conceive. > > And there is a continuum: Some inorganic processes somehow evolved > into those organic processes. The inorganic processes that generate > the earth's weather are extremely complex. And the weather affects > and is affected by all the organic processes on earth. And the earth > is just one insignificant rocky planet in a run-of-the-mill galaxy > in one corner of an immensely complex cosmos. > > John > > > > > ----------------------------- > PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to > [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L > but to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the > BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm > . > > > > > >
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