Jon, you’re asking: If the logical depth/signification of a Sign corresponds to its Interpretan … then where does the Sign's information fit into the picture?
But you’ve already answered that yourself: “The information (breadth x depth) of a Sign then corresponds to the unity of the Object with its characters; i.e., the Sign's Interpretant.” (I’ve omitted “3ns/Entelechy” from the end of that sentence of yours because I think your use of those terms in that context is confusing — and may even be causing part of the problem you have with “reconciling” what you see as two completely different Peircean analyses. Let me generalize from this a bit. We’re dealing with three analyses of informational semiosis here. One is the breadth/depth (extension/intension, extension/comprehension) dichotomy, which is a very old analysis of the meanings of terms, but which Peirce extended to apply to propositions and arguments as well. Another is the subject/predicate dichotomy which applies to propositions. The third is the standard trichotomy of the ‘elements’ or correlates in a triadic relation, namely sign/object/interpretant. Now, all three of these are analyses of the same semiotic phenomenon, when applied to the structure of propositions, as they all are. But these analyses are made for different purposes and they do not necessarily map onto each other cogently. Nor should they, when we consider that the products of these analyses of semiosic processes are not observable entities but entia rationis. As Peirce said in his description of the “perfect sign,” “The only signs which are tolerably fixed are non-existent abstractions.” And if a sign such as a proposition is not fixed, the components into which it is analyzed are even less fixed. Especially when you try to take their names and map them onto another analysis. I’m going to speculate that the discrepancy you see results from your attempt to map dichotomies (breadth/depth, subject/predicate) onto the triad sign/object/interpretant. As you say, the mapping of denotation, breadth and subject onto the object seems obvious. But then what do you map the depth, predicate and signification onto? The sign? The interpretant? Some blending of the two? Any of these choices can be made to work in some contexts, and in fact IS made to work in various texts embodying Peirce’s late semiotic. But none of these mappings give you an exact fit. For instance, the subject of a proposition is usually regarded as part of it, but the (dynamic) object of a proposition is external to it; so the “correspondence” between subject and object is not exact. That’s because analyses of continuous processes always have a degree of arbitrariness to them. Peirce’s late semiotic emphasizes this in the case of the subject/predicate analysis, but it applies to some degree to every analysis of semiosis — including the taxonomy of sign types. I hope this makes some sense, though it may not cause the discrepancy you see to disappear. Gary f. From: Jon Alan Schmidt <[email protected]> Sent: 21-Jul-18 12:13 To: [email protected] Subject: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Logical Depth and Signification Gary F., List: I honestly thought that I spelled it out rather clearly, but I guess that I will try again. The earlier passages seem to be saying that the logical depth/signification of a Sign corresponds to qualities or characters of its Dynamic Object (2ns/Matter), which together constitute its ground or Immediate Object (1ns/Form). The information (breadth x depth) of a Sign then corresponds to the unity of the Object with its characters; i.e., the Sign's Interpretant (3ns/Entelechy). All of this makes a lot of sense to me right now, but the later passages seem to be saying instead that the logical depth/signification of a Sign corresponds to its Interpretant. This is what I am having trouble reconciling. For example, If that is the case, then where does the Sign's information fit into the picture? Admittedly, it gives me pause that Peirce introduced the whole notion of Immediate Object at almost exactly the same time that he shifted to the later concept of depth/signification (1904-1906). Regards, Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran Layman www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt <http://www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt> - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt <http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt>
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