I wrote: >> Of course van Gelder and Pibel are talking about the morality of >> society as a whole. But collective poverty simply leaves people >> looking back enviously at the golden age of bubbles, SUVs, and >> large-screen TVs. If we want a society that is ecologically moral, >> etc., it's got to be a voluntary, democratic, and collective decision, >> not the result of disaster. > raghu writes: > It is really tragic that anyone on the left (or is it the "Left"?) who > dares suggest a scaling back of consumption is savagely criticized and > even compared with the likes of Mellon....
I haven't seen any "savage criticism" in this thread. No name-calling. No intimations that anyone is dishonest. > van Gelder is not talking about the morality of society; he is making > an argument on environmental and sustainability grounds for reduction > of wasteful consumption. He is not suggesting "collective poverty"; he > is suggesting trading off consumption and workaholism for more > leisure. He is not saying the economic crisis is a good thing; he is > saying it is an opportunity to make big changes. Maybe, but for the "big changes" to occur, there will have to be a mass movement that would radically transform not only the name of the person in the White House or those in the houses of Congress but the nature of politics and society. Then, the decision could be "voluntary, democratic, and collective." If politics and economics are not transformed, then we will most likely see a top-down imposition of collective poverty. Those in power -- the Modern Mellons -- will make sure that their version of environmental austerity will be pleasant, while the "outs" will bear the brunt. McMansions won't be seen as "wasteful consumption," but auto workers' "middle class" wages will be. We have to be careful with our proposals. Even really nice-sounding programs can turn out to be really horrible in practice if we don't take the distribution of power into account. -- Jim Devine / "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your own way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante. _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
