The whole point, repeated by Marx, is that the "despotism" is "caused"
by the "superstition" and "prejudice". Given that to be "enlightened"
is "to think for oneself", it can't be developed by despotic means.

^^^^^^^
CB: I know you say Marx "repeats" this , but it goes against some the
most well known other principles that Marx repeats.  "Despotism" , ie.
political superstructure , would be caused by the economic
infrastructure, not the structure of the individual personalities of
the working masses. This would be a reductionist theory of politics
that is significantly the anti-thesis of Marx's other well known
pronouncements on this issue.

Also, evidently , "enlightenment can be developed by despotic means.
Witness the  facts of the eradication of superstition and prejudice in
the Soviet Union.

^^^^^^^^


Once individuals become "enlightened", "despotism" becomes impossible.

^^^^^^
CB: But are you saying there has never arisen a mass of enlightened
individuals anywhere ?
^^^^^^

The idea that the "superstition" and "prejudice" of peasants was
"responsible" for Stalinist "despotism", in the sense Marx claimed
they were "responsible" for, the "cause" of, "the Bonaparte dynasty"
in 19th century France, is consistent with the claim made by Kara-
Murza in the passage from Soviet Civilization: From 1917 to the Great
Victory translated by Chris Doss and posted to LBO. Even in the
passage quoted by Doss, the claim was supported with historical
evidence.

^^^^^^
CB: Yes, but the masses of the Soviet people became non-superstitious
and non-prejudice under Stalinist despotism, in fact. I'm sure Chris
Doss will tell you that. So, your version of Marx's theory is not
supported by the facts there.

^^^^^


A very important feature of the "Stalinist repressions" consists in
that the actions of the government were met with mass support, which
it would have been impossible to either organize or imitate.

^^^^^
CB: That's seems  an important admission  in the context of this
discussion. So, evidently, these masses themselves were not repressed.

^^^^^^

 It would also have been impossible to carry out such repressions if
the personnel of the enforcement agencies and the victims themselves
had not accepted them as legitimate (although each victim likely
considered his particular case to be a mistake). This is obvious not
only because there were hardly no attempts made by people to protect
themselves from repressions, even by those who had the means. In the
repressions against the high military command death sentences were
given to victims by their colleagues, who at the next stage would
become victims themselves.

^^^^^
CB: But the overwhelming majority of the masses were not so repressed
or sentenced.

^^^^^

When we talk about the repressions, we avoid looking at one obvious,
but unpleasant, fact. The repressions of 1937-38 to a great extent
were created not by state totalitarianism, but by a profound
_democracy_. But not a democracy of civil society of rational
individuals, but the archaic one of the peasant commune.

^^^^
CB: So,  the SU was a sort of democratic despotism. I can go with
that. kind of a dictatorship of the peasants and proletariat. It is
this characteristic of the SU that allowed it to eradicate
superstition and prejudice.

^^^^^^

 This is an enormous dark force,

^^^^^
CB: It was both a dark and enlightened force at the same time.  There
was enormous advance and good that came out the SU as well as
repression and bad. It was contradictory, but not all bad or backward
by a long shot.

^^^^^^

 and when it is allowed to carry out its will, innocent heads roll.
For it is easy for the peasant commune to believe in plots and the
secret power of aliens, of "enemies of the people."

^^^^^
CB: Given the actual historical context of the Civil War with the
White ( i.e. light) forces, imperialist forces, ensuing imperialist
blockade, and eventually the Nazi invasion, these peasants were a lot
more materialist in there beliefs than you give them credit for.

^^^^^^

When such hatred, possessing the power of an epidemic, rules the
peasant commune, every witch will burn. And the Russian peasant
commune is not crueler in this, than, for example, that of Western
Europe -- it simply occured there earlier than it did among us.

^^^^^^
CB: Given the superstitious fear of Communist in the West during the
Cold War, this occurred _later_ than it did among the Russian
peasants. Not to mention the irrational prejudice and hatred of Jim
Crow racism, anti-Asian racism and hatred in the Korean, Viet Nam wars
in the US right on into the 1960's. Then what of the superstition and
prejudice of Reaganism and evangelicals, etc.

^^^^^^

http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/2006/2006-October/020858.html

That much "individuality" in the US is still characterized by
significant "superstition" and "prejudice" indicates that Marx was
mistaken about the ability of the capitalist labour process to develop
the degree of "integral development of every individual producer",
i.e. of "enlightenment", that would "emancipate" individuals from
"superstition" and "prejudice".

Without such development, "socialism" in his sense remains impracticable.

^^^^^^
CB; However, there was significant if only partial development of
socialism, as well as eradication of superstition and prejudice among
the masses of the people in the Soviet Union/Russia, where Marx also
predicted that the peasant communes could be basis for the same.  So,
it hasn't been impracticable in fact and  actual history.   Marx's
thinking on these issues is as  widely purveyed around the world as it
is,because the Soviet Union existed

^^^^^^^
Ted
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