Thanks for this, Sean.  

It reminds me of Howl! in the attempt to draw us (me) on Pen-l out of our silos.

What can I say but "Yes."

For those that missed this last month, here's a second chance.

Gene


On Jan 28, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Sean Andrews wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 18:09, Jim Devine <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> The employers of any standard of market success  -- including Pareto
>> efficiency -- must recognize that markets are a human-created
>> institutional framework that exists due to the operations of the other
>> artificial institutions (mostly the state and its monopolization of
>> the means of coercion). Because people are involved, other criteria
>> must be heeded in order to preserve the _legitimacy_ of the system:
>> these include fairness (equity), democratic participation, and
>> individual freedom.
> 
> Thanks, Jim.  I read David's e-mail before I had to wash the dishes
> and put the baby to sleep and the whole time I was just thinking about
> how to (again) respond to this kind of sociopathic Hobbesian
> utopianism (which must position itself as the only option except the
> furthest thing that anyone ever asks - golf courses and pools.  How
> dreadful!)   It's both tiresome and an addictive sport I'm trying to
> go cold turkey on.  I have many other things to write and read
> tonight, but couldn't stand leaving unchallenged this infuriating
> absolutism.  Yes these are all subjective, historical ways we assign
> value to culture and social morals: but so is the free market.  It's
> one possible orientation among many arrangements, yet every one of its
> adherents examine every alternative arrangement as if their own were
> the natural predisposition of the human animal rather than a
> hypothetical arrangement itself.
> 
> Market failure is, as everyone here has said, is only applicable in so
> far as it is understood that the market is (and must be recognized as)
> one mechanism among many for arranging our productive social
> relationships.  You are right that judgements about values and morals
> are indeed subjective, but en masse they function objectively - and in
> most cases it is only when someone else's declaration of morality
> appears to be subjective (or are made to appear so) that we bother to
> notice or even acknowledge the social fact of the dominant culture.
> It would be unlikely that everyone would believe that the 4000sq ft
> house on a golf course should be the basic standard of living.  But
> you might convince a great number of them to believe that the
> distribution of basic human knowledge to be a social good.
> 
> In the case of pharmaceutical knowledge, particularly of the life
> saving variety, there is broad support for the notion that the
> discovery of that kind of knowledge is a patrimony to your species,
> that it represents the equivalent of an evolutionary elevation in the
> ability of our species to survive. Like the discoverer, humans have
> benefitted from discoveries their ancestors made - discoveries that
> helped humans defy nature in order to live longer. From stone age
> tools and ancient medicine, to the simple knowledge that, though they
> may be okay for other animals to eat, some foods can kill you.  Were
> this knowledge closely guarded, never collected or shared, we would be
> still be sitting around that damn obelisk in the opening of the movie
> 2001.
> 
> But lest I seem to be sneaking human nature back into the frame, I
> will say that all of the above may be a complete fabrication, but in
> any case it is a fabrication that many people are convinced is true.
> On the surface, whatever its legacy, our general understanding of our
> history makes two things fairly clear: One that, no matter what
> economic structures are in place (free market utopia notably being one
> of the rarest actually existing economic structures till now) the
> discoveries of this variety are truly unpredictable in the history of
> human kind.  A great array of factors have to come together in just
> the right way to produce discoveries like Pasteur or Fleming or
> Watson/Crick, etc.  Which isn't to say that some conditions aren't
> more conducive to it.  And Two that thus the good fortune to discover
> something is only partially the result of the human who did the
> discovering: it was, in a sense, also the result of the human society
> around her.  There is a continuum here, of course, with absolutely
> life saving knowledge being difficult to morally keep from others;
> less essential, but useful, knowledge more privileged; and almost
> useless knowledge either shrouded in obscurity or broadcast on TV.
> 
> People in our culture (the one that has come up with concepts like
> "market failure") do believe this.  We have arranged our culture and
> our legal structures on this assumption.  Patents, in this case, are
> an accommodation to present circumstances - as is the federal (public)
> funding of basic science (which far outweighs the importance of R&D by
> Phirms, a point it seems absurd to have to make - or even address - on
> a listserve run by the author of Steal This Idea, but whatever).  They
> are a recent invention, largely in the era of wage labor when it was
> realized that the people who could discover things might - gasp! - not
> be members of the elite class who could afford liesure and thus might
> need to forego the life giving, commodity-buying labor of the multitud
> in order to make them.  Or, rather, if you gave a general social
> incentive - the patent - to people who might discover something
> important, then it might broaden the pool of people available to make
> discoveries (it would also be handy to have as many of them as well
> educated as possible, maybe even by people who have thought about
> teaching and learning rather than programming computers, but that is a
> crazy socialist idea.  I elaborate something like it below).  It did
> indeed help that process to some extent, though it still wasn't nearly
> enough - hence the public funding for basic science.  Likewise all
> those charities that collect money to study different diseases like
> cancer or parkinson's or ALS.
> 
> By the time we get to market failure in pharmaceutical sales, it
> likely has almost nothing at all to do with patents.  A pill that
> costs $5 to produce either faces too small a market to make scale
> profitable or the producer is too inefficient in the production
> process itself (after the knowledge production).  In the first case, a
> patent won't help obviate the high price - it won't magically enlarge
> the people who the drug applies to (though once it's patented,
> companies generally try to find off label uses in order to try).  And
> in the second, the patent only prevents generics who might be able to
> derive a better way of manufacturing it were they able to. If it is so
> necessary, so fundamental, and widespread an improvement of the human
> condition, it will likely be easy to recoup costs because of this
> scale.  A manufacturer would therefore realize that, if they can be
> elastic on their price early on, they will be able to make it back
> over the long life of the drug.  If they really can't produce it any
> cheaper, then it doesn't make sense for them to prevent others from
> doing so.  No one else is likely to produce it at all if it simple
> can't be made any cheaper.
> 
> In each case, the market fails to call the drug to production because
> effective demand is not enough to produce a profitable or sustainable
> business.  When we call it market failure, we mean that, even though
> we have all sorts of mechanisms in place to aid in the discovery and
> production of important medical and technological breakthroughs, the
> final mechanism - i.e. the private market -  in the chain of
> mechanisms through which we produce and distribute that knowledge in a
> material, functional form is failing to produce the effects we
> understand to be the main goal of the process - i.e. it isn't
> producing and distributing that knowledge in a material, functional
> form.
> 
> It is here that we as a society need to start reflecting on some of
> our assumptions about the current iteration of this process.  First
> absolute human desperation drove people to discoveries - or, more
> likely, only the people who made these discoveries were able to
> survive.  Then as a baseline of human existence begins to level, many
> more of the new discoveries were made by people with extra time and
> resources with which to learn science or, as in the case of people
> like Bacon's Invisible College or Taylor's time-work study, to collect
> and synthesize others discoveries.  Then we developed systems to
> reward people who couldn't otherwise afford to not labor (in part
> because, with the discoveries so far, the cost of human labor needed
> to survive is so much cheaper) systems like patents and direct state
> funding, and charities for basic science.
> 
> Now we face a terrible situation of broad market failure. We could
> possibly advance scientific and technological means to catapult us to
> some never dreamed up level of comfort and liesure.  But, as Gortz,
> points out, the way the most recent advances are being distributed,
> there again becomes an underclass of people who, despite being alive
> when it should be the easiest possible thing for a human to do, still
> struggle on a daily basis to meet their needs.  This is, ironically,
> because it is the cheapest it has ever been to live in terms of the
> cost of human labor - thus those souls have less value as potential
> bearers of basic human labor, at least according to the metric being
> used to distribute the rewards of human labor produced in aggregate.
> In short, we have plenty of people to work; and we have dwindling, but
> likely sufficient (but unequally distributed) resources to maintain a
> base of support for everyone; in many cases, we have plenty of
> finished goods (houses comes to mind in the current economy) that
> simply can't call forth a market for their sale.  This generalized
> market failure risks creating what is almost unheard of in nature:
> where there are plenty of resources, readily available and easily
> satisfying needs, yet a third of the population is left to die simply
> because they don't readily fit into the arbitrary schema devised
> within some segment of the group for how those resources and goods
> will be distributed.  Namely, they demand money from people who have
> no way to get money because their labor is unnecessary in the
> incredibly productive system that produces those goods.  Or, as Zizek
> riffs on Pareto optimality in /First as Tragedy, Then as Farce/
> 
> "A century ago, Vilfredo Pareto was the first to describe the
> so-called 80/20 rule of social (and not only social) life: 80 percent
> of the land is owned by 20 percent of the people, 80 percent of the
> profits are produced by 20 percent of the employees, 80 percent of
> decisions are made in 20 percent of the meeting time, 80 percent of
> the links to the Web point to less than 20 percent of the Webpages, 80
> percent of the peas come from 20 percent of the peapods. As some
> social analysts and economists have suggested, the contemporary
> explosion of productivity confronts us with the ultimate case of this
> rule: the coming global economy will tend towards a state in which
> only 20 percent of the labor force are able to do all the necessary
> work, so that 80 percent of people will be basically irrelevant and of
> no use, thus potentially unemployed. As this logic reaches its
> extreme, would it not be reasonable to bring it to its self-negation:
> is not a system which renders 80 percent of people irrelevant and
> useless itself irrelevant and of no use."
> 
> If the current system were tweaked ever so slightly (note, I'm
> bracketing the full communist solution, though I think, ultimately,
> there is an overly utopian belief in science and progress there) such
> that the incredible productivity realized a more generalized liesure
> (i.e. ability to not work) that would set the new stage on which these
> spikes of discovery can occur.  The more people are educated, healthy,
> and able to subsist without the essential necessity to work a
> meaningless job for the majority of their life (a portion of it, sure,
> but 8 whole hours a day! what is this, the 20th century?) the more
> likely it is that new breakthroughs will occur - and that there will
> be an enormous market to support their production and distribution.
> Instead there is a microscopic overclass that can't stop making money
> long enough to take a break so it perverts the entire edifice of
> society in order to to buy more time, paying another handful of people
> to do mundane tasks at a higher price than it is actually, socially
> worth and doing nothing to advance knowledge or industry, relying
> instead on patents, copyrights, trademarks, complicated financial
> instruments, international arbitrage, legislative courtesans, and well
> paid lawyers to leverage the general social production of value into a
> rent paid to them for, evidently, simply being alive.
> 
> It is this arrangement of social production and distribution that
> creates "market failure" in our contemporary global society.  It also
> creates a generalized disintegration between what level of life we
> could support and the level of life we do support.  It is a long way
> from obviating this, realigning these to values in some significant
> way, to demanding golf courses and swimming pools for all.  On the
> other hand, it is likely only by artificially and collectively
> deciding to mindfully realign these values that we will ever be able
> to achieve that absurdly high level of sustainable, generalized
> welfare.  The sooner we recognize that, the sooner we can work towards
> it an make it happen.  It would by nice to think we'll get there
> before we destroy the planet, but we seem more interested in the
> latter than the former.  Looks like the monkeys might get another shot
> at it.
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